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CEOs Want Their Offices Back

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Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#371

Post by hinkley »

hiram112 wrote: post #277
j2bax wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cry me a river. I know a lot of nurses and teachers that feel really bad for the poor software engineer class.

What's that supposed to mean? RNs and Nurse Practioners make at least as much as the typical software engineers in SV. The $175-$250K+ that some of the senior guys at Google and FB make is not typical. Most of us in the rest of the country are probably making about $100K, and that's when we start becoming over-priced. And teachers? I have respect for them, but I don't consider what they do necessarily difficult, espe…

Not GP, but I'm related to an RN, so I know a little bit about the sorts of things that nurses say about doctors when they're not around.

Basically as bad as our power dynamic is, the esteem doctors hold for themselves and the disregard they have for RNs as people who couldn't finish their medical training is well known if not widely broadcast.

When you walk around acting like your organization could function without any of the people who do all of the work, there are gonna be problems. But at least for us those problems mostly don't include people dying.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#372

Post by hinkley »

varelse wrote: post #162
koolba wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That violates rule number one of dealing with HR: Don't talk to HR. It doesn't matter how innocuous the comment is. It can come back to bite you. Example: You: "I don't like open floor plans." HR: "Add a note to his file that he's anti-social. If he ever comes back here it'll be recorded already."

Yeah, I've got one of those "non-regretted depature" notes on my record at Google. So what? Google lost out, not me. Jobs aren't scarce, but talent is. I've never gone for want of employment and Google blind-allocated me into a boring gig I hated. And yes, I'm very anti-social when I'm coding. I wouldn't want to work for a company that considered that a negative trait.

non-regretted departure?

Is that something like "Quit my job at Google, middle fingers in the air," or what?

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#373

Post by hinkley »

deepGem wrote: post #101
varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors. I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pa…

Lesson we learned before the original dot-bomb, both on the trip up and the path down:

You want your cube to be just slightly smaller than could uncomfortably fit two people. Otherwise, someday it will be uncomfortably fitting two people.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#374

Post by hinkley »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #291
sfifs wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now I doubt it simply because it's way way cheaper to have open floor plans than rooms. Savings on materials, easier compliance with fire safety, way higher density.

> higher density One day someone will look up and notice that whole unused third dimension in the office.

Worked a place where a third of our office had 20ft ceilings and we were running out of space for people.

I used to joke that Ikea sold queen sized bunk beds (I dunno if they still do, but they did then), and that we could totally get a desk up on top of one of those...

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#375

Post by deepGem »

ericd wrote: post #214
deepGem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors. I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pa…

How would you feel about larger offices that fit ~8, and housed your entire immediate team, but no one else? Your manager would go to another room for their meetings with other parts of the organization, and you all would be free to collaborate as needed, or shut up as needed?

I think that'll fly, if you can really manage the no meetings clause :).

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#376

Post by hinkley »

MichaelGG wrote: post #169
sidlls wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't consider that your position of authority affected a different dynamic than if you were a lower ranked individual contributor? > As a side note, this workplace was comprised of mostly men and women under the age of 35 with quite a few right out of college. I'm not sure how this is relevant. One might as easily conclude that these folks don't know any better due to youth and inexperience as that "it's just a…

I had this exact thing happen. I was consulting for a team that just acquired a small company. They had this huge building, but got most people into a large open area. The lead was certain it was so useful, he was tuned in, everyone loved it. Plus "they can go into offices if they need it". In personal interviews with employees, nearly everyone hated it and wished they could just permanently have an office and only c…

You know, it's one thing when you're crammed in because getting an office means moving the whole company to a new building.

Must be quite frustrating to sit in a nearly empty building and have everyone sardined into one large room.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#377

Post by wdb »

matchagaucho wrote: post #183
deepGem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors. I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pa…

The irony is that we (FB) came in and demolished all those awesome Sun offices to create "open space". No "Duke" mascots were harmed in the process, though :-)

But do you have an assigned desk? Every morning I am hoping there is a desk free for me and don't need to squeeze in between two colleagues. No fun.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#378

Post by blhack »

varelse wrote: post #354
blhack wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sculpt with the mouse is about $60 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYX54C0/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Used, not new... If someone were to lend me this combo for a couple weeks, I'd be happy to evaluate it, and if it worked, I'd buy a bunch of them. But I have a working solution right now so I'm not really in the market for an upgrade.

No, that is the brand new cost. I just bought one.

You may have to be logged in to see it?

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#379

Post by [deleted] »

varelse wrote: post #354
blhack wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sculpt with the mouse is about $60 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYX54C0/ref=oh_aui_deta...

Used, not new... If someone were to lend me this combo for a couple weeks, I'd be happy to evaluate it, and if it worked, I'd buy a bunch of them. But I have a working solution right now so I'm not really in the market for an upgrade.

[deleted]

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#380

Post by thwarted »

noarchy wrote: post #260
varelse wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair (and probably downvoted), _The Agile Manifesto_ is a great read IMO. None of its 12 principles mandate open floor plans, scrum or daily standups. https://www.smartsheet.com/comprehensive-guide-values-princi... Combine these with Joel Spolsky's 12 steps to better code and I'd call that a winning culture. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... But that's never how it turns out so "yo…

I actually agree that the Agile Manifesto is a good read. That's why I tend to use air quotes when discussing "Agile" at any shop, because I think it rarely resembles anything in the Manifesto. But I'm not sure one can sell certification courses as easily based on the elegant-yet-simple principles outlined in the Manifesto.

There's being "agile" as in flexible and outlined in the Agile Manifesto, and there's being "Agile" as in Scrum. I've found myself, and others, referring to the later verbally as "capital-A Agile" to distinguish the two.
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