US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High • Hacker News Board

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#371

Post by phdp » Thu, May 18, 2017, 1:52 PM UTC

stillhere wrote: post #368

crdb wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not told to "just go to the best college no matter what" > majoring in Underwater Basket Weaving was not a great idea from a financial point of view I've met many people in places like McKinsey or Goldman Sachs (i.e. "elite" high paying jobs) with degrees from Oxford or Cambridge in Philosophy, English, Arch & Ant or Theology (in "decreasing usefulness"). Many more than, say, graduates in accounting or business adm…

I know someone who went to NYU who now makes $15/hr and is $90k in debt because they majored in media studies. I am not trying to make fun of them as I love them but they believed and still legitimately believe the lie that going to an Ivy League should have been enough for them to live comfortably. Problem is that doesn't matter when your thesis is literally based on playing Second Life. Not that there's no value in…

NYU is not an Ivy League school though.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#372

Post by jjawssd » Thu, May 18, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

utternerd wrote: post #66

pilsetnieks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erasmus is a EU programme for student exchange between cooperating universities for up to a year, it's not relevant in this case. However, they should look at German universities in general because they are practically free for anyone.

"Free" meaning coercion via the state to fund other people's pursuits. Perhaps we should look at why costs are rising? People need to seriously evaluate if it's really needed for them. I reject your notion that everyone, or even most people need a college degree. (I didn't, and I live quite comfortably thanks to tech with a 6 figure salary) Part of the problem is exactly that we're subsidizing many people, forcing mo…

Germans gladly accept the state taking half of their paycheck for pursuits such as this.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#373

Post by icanibo » Thu, May 18, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #327

mcguire wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what are the requirements for getting into a university there? http://www.businessinsider.com/how-do-european-countries-aff... " For all countries, with the exception of Finland, the US has a much higher percentage of students who have enrolled in post-high school education. "

I can't speak for Finland, but here in Germany, you need Hochschulreife (university entrance qualification) to attend a university. There are two basic ways to get there, depending on which type of secondary schooling you attended. After typically attending primary school for four years [1] (age 6-10 or 7-11), there are three basic types of secondary schools: - The Hauptschule (general school) is five years long (for…

This would never fly in the US. Determining career paths based on exams at ~age 10 based on exam scores would almost certainly result in a disparity between inner-city kids and their pre-school educated, suburban counterparts. People would not tolerate the likely racial inequality in outcomes.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#374

Post by mcguire » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

lz400 wrote: post #214

mcguire wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" When I studied you had to pass an exam. Certain subjects had a very high bar. For example civil engineering. Can't get it without top grades and top results in the exam. " That would be the other side of the coin: if you do poorly on the exam or have poor grades, your choices are limited, no? The upside of the American system is that anyone can get higher education. The downside is that many of the schools are tuit…

The most prestigious schools in the most difficult degrees might be difficult if you are a crappy student. That's probably for the best. If the US can you study in one of those "tuition mill" schools and become a doctor or an aviation engineer and work in your field?

Yes, although there are some limitations there: medicine has a high barrier to entry and engineering requires an accredited degree and certification. Most of the tuition mill students get "information technology" or similar degrees that lack strong professional organizations.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#375

Post by majewsky » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:10 PM UTC

icanibo wrote: post #373

majewsky wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Finland, but here in Germany, you need Hochschulreife (university entrance qualification) to attend a university. There are two basic ways to get there, depending on which type of secondary schooling you attended. After typically attending primary school for four years [1] (age 6-10 or 7-11), there are three basic types of secondary schools: - The Hauptschule (general school) is five years long (for…

This would never fly in the US. Determining career paths based on exams at ~age 10 based on exam scores would almost certainly result in a disparity between inner-city kids and their pre-school educated, suburban counterparts. People would not tolerate the likely racial inequality in outcomes.

There is a limited level of mobility between different types of secondary school, but yeah, it's mostly determined at ages 10-12. (Some states have moved the 5th and 6th grade from secondary to primary school to push that decision to an older age.) Plenty of parents are helicoptering their kids these days to ensure that they end up at the right secondary school.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#376

Post by ruste » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

nerfhammer wrote: post #200

austenallred wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sure feels like a bubble to me. I don't know how many friends I have with six figures of student loans and no career, but it's a lot. Considering that those loans don't even go away with bankruptcy, it's waaaay too many. I've noticed that younger students are starting to realize how much risk there is in something like that and shy away when my generation didn't. Maybe it's that I grew up in a "striving" middle cl…

Bubbles are caused by speculation, often by unsophisticated investors. Since an education is a non-transferrable asset it's difficult to conceive how it could be classified as a "bubble". Speculators buy assets that they aren't going to use themselves purely to sell it to someone else. If speculators are selling to mostly to other speculators and transactions between speculators starts taking up the bulk of the activ…

I think it's more likely the bubble that bursts is in the loan market. Loads of speculators moving college debt around until everyone realizes that nobody can pay back their student loans making the debt worthless. Everyone panics and sells debt as fast as they can.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#377

Post by thatwebdude » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:17 PM UTC

manacit wrote: post #10

I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…

I think this a great opportunity for trade schools, community colleges, and apprenticeships to reinvent themselves.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#378

Post by thatwebdude » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:20 PM UTC

stillhere wrote: post #368

crdb wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not told to "just go to the best college no matter what" > majoring in Underwater Basket Weaving was not a great idea from a financial point of view I've met many people in places like McKinsey or Goldman Sachs (i.e. "elite" high paying jobs) with degrees from Oxford or Cambridge in Philosophy, English, Arch & Ant or Theology (in "decreasing usefulness"). Many more than, say, graduates in accounting or business adm…

I know someone who went to NYU who now makes $15/hr and is $90k in debt because they majored in media studies. I am not trying to make fun of them as I love them but they believed and still legitimately believe the lie that going to an Ivy League should have been enough for them to live comfortably. Problem is that doesn't matter when your thesis is literally based on playing Second Life. Not that there's no value in…

A poor choice in majors is still sometimes a poor lifestyle choice in any school, Ivy League or not.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#379

Post by danesparza » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

nomercy400 wrote: post #308

The 100% chart is quite deceptive. Student loans take a larger share of the debt. Is that because increased tuition fees (probably), is that because more young people have become students (ie. higher education available to more people), is it because young graduates won't buy a house and still live with their parents (and thus stay in the Student Loans category instead of moving to the Mortage category) and opt for a…

I would disagree with your last statement. The chart is ambiguous (which is just poor reporting on the part of NYTimes). It's unclear if auto loans have grown, student loans have grown, the average home loan has shrunk (or just gotten paid down since 2008), or if there is another effect in play. The 'percentage share of consumer debt' each item is isn't a useful fact on it's own.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#380

Post by thatwebdude » Thu, May 18, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #193

ryandrake wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, maybe it's different now, but my generation (went to school in the mid 90s) was not told to "just go to the best college no matter what": We were also advised to consider the cost and carefully choose a major so as to produce a positive expected ROI. Obviously nobody has a crystal ball and you can never tell when huge, industry-wrecking changes are coming, but it was well understood that majoring in Und…

>went to school in the mid 90s >but it was well understood that majoring in Underwater Basket Weaving The way you make such a condescending argument and blame the victim takes away any credibility in your comment. The issue is that tuition has ballooned since the 90s. Tuition is outpacing income/inflation and most else, so regardless of what school or major, the ROI is going down for most. Also, even if you went to a…

Useless majors are only ones where the recipient fails to utilize it.

I set myself with a well-known localized (to the industry) degree (Music Performance), but still couldn't implement it; even in a sense where I could turn it into something a bit more "useful" (Music Education).

Plenty of my classmates have gone on to utilize it effectively.

My major wasn't useless; I was.