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Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

nytimes.com

371–380 of 534 posts

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#371

As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…

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Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#372

As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…

Were you there when the alleged facts happened? If not, it is definitely he-said-she-said. It is probable that things happened as Fowler claims, but we have no way of knowing without evidence. The article mentions the facts, which are basically who said what, since neither side has shared any evidence. Personally I'm not going to pass judgment either way without knowing more, but this is definitely going into my something-fishy-over-there file.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because a good number of people have worked for SF startups and seen this behavior first hand.

That doesn't excuse all the guilty-until-proven-innocent pitchforking going on right now.

Why would she lie about something like this? If she's lying then her career will be wrecked, and Uber will hit her with a defamation lawsuit that will ruin her life and finances.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#374

As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…

Yeah unfortunately NYT mixed the 2 to try to get sympathy for Pao and paint a broader gender issue within SV. These 2 cases are quite far apart.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. Am I wrong in believing that even for a civil trial, the jury must be heavily biased towards the defendant? Does California require jury unanimity to reach a decision in a civil case?

according to this https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/200/200.h... the burden of proof is > A party must persuade you, by the evidence presented in court, that what he or she is required to prove is more likely to be true than not true. This is referred to as “the burden of proof.” After weighing all of the evidence, if you cannot decide that something is more likely to be true than not true, you must…

I am also not a lawyer, but a quick web search suggests that for civil cases in California, if 3/4s of the jury finds for the plaintiff, the plaintiff wins (ie, 9 of 12).

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#376

>Ms. Fowler’s account is another sign of Silicon Valley’s struggle with women’s issues and diversity in a male-dominated engineering environment. In 2015, the venture capital world was put under the microscope when Ellen Pao, a former partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, claimed in a lawsuit that she was discriminated against at the blue-chip venture firm because of her gender — a case she lost. This paragrap…

My feed is full of women saying that this kind of stuff is not unique to Uber. What's apparently remarkable is that all of this happened to her in one year.

That's fine.. It just hurts NYT's article to lump Fowler and Pao together (BTW Pao case had nothing to do with sexual harrassment). IMO it would be a much stronger article if it just focused on Fowler.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#377
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sooner or later, the truth is going to come out. Fowler knows this. There's no room for ambiguity here: either Uber has broken the law extravagantly , or she's lying. If the latter is true, she will be crucified for it. The defamation suit alone would be monumental. And again, there's no ambiguity. She says she has extensive records of this behavior. That's not something she can really walk back. In a situation where…

There's an obvious test of whether your claim that, if she's caught lying, she'll become a massive pariah: Ellen Pao, whose claims fell apart in a court of law thanks to evidence she was lying. Look at how the publications like the New York Times and people in this thread treated that case. Here's some quotes from the NYT article about her losing that is linked from this one: "One of Silicon Valley’s most famous vent…

First of all, there's a big difference between merely losing a civil case and having been proved to have lied. It just means the jury did not find sufficient evidence of wrongdoing. There are a lot of possible reasons for that. If you want to make the case that she was actually lying, you need to point out specific evidence for that.

The fact that the firm not only didn't counter-sue, but also offered to settle with her in exchange for dropping her appeal, tells me that the evidence that she lied is not very strong. Everyone agrees that they took a reputation hit over this. If they had clear evidence that she committed perjury, wouldn't they be eager to clear their name exhaustively?

But second of all, I don't see nearly the kind of buy-in in Pao's case as in Fowlers. Pao sued. Fowler wrote an extensive indictment of Uber's company culture. IANAL, but it seems from what I've seen that it's hard to sue someone for defamation over a lawsuit. A scathing blog post is another story. In addition, there's inherent ambiguity in merely losing a lawsuit. Fowler's move is far more dangerous to her reputation.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#378
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HuffPo should be disqualified as a source regarding Uber. As stated in the NYT piece, Arianna Huffington is on Uber's board. She has a clear interest in shining as positive a light as possible on Uber at all times.

Ask yourself which journalists have A16Z or Andreessen himself as investors, who are also among the biggest investors in Lyft. This is an exercise left up to the reader. There is no journalism in Silicon Valley. Everything is PR. As Doerr said "No conflict, no interest."

In this light, Susan Rigetti seems to have published a solid piece of personal journalism.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#379

>Ms. Fowler’s account is another sign of Silicon Valley’s struggle with women’s issues and diversity in a male-dominated engineering environment. In 2015, the venture capital world was put under the microscope when Ellen Pao, a former partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, claimed in a lawsuit that she was discriminated against at the blue-chip venture firm because of her gender — a case she lost. This paragrap…

I'm curious, are you a man or a woman? I'm only asking because you cite your experience at 6 companies to support the assertion that this is not a widespread problem in SV. I assert that men would have a harder time detecting this problem.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#380
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actually happened: "Emil was pushing Ben to answer why it was OK for journalists to publish false stories or attack a businessperson’s personal life. Ben was quiet. It was a pretty normal conversation about hypotheticals. There was no malice or yelling or fighting. It was a chat between the two of them that I happened to overhear. The last comment that I heard was when Emil hypothesized about creating a coalitio…

If you are hired by a corporation to respond to journalists, you are in PR, not journalism. You're not motivated by the truth.

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