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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#371

Post by School-Cotton »

rublev wrote: post #368
School-Cotton wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. What do you do?

I am a software engineer at a top tech company.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#372

Post by jeandejean »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #352
jeandejean wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get it wrong, we're not lacking interesting tech jobs at all, we're lacking interesting salaries.

Why are the salaries so much lower? Is it lack of funding or do employers just don't want to pay more?

It is mostly because of the social welfare that is funded massively over salaries extortion. Take a random 60k€ salary for a senior software engineer in Paris, the employer is paying at least the same amount of taxes on top of that, making the cost for the company up to 120k€. It is not that far away from some foreign salaries for the same position, except in other countries highly skilled workers are not that massively extorted from their wage.

Of course on the other hand you don't care too much about health insurance (you still have to get a supplement private insurance), education for your children (true that it's nearly free), vacations (5 weeks is the least, you usually get 9/10 weeks). But I think it just doesn't add up for highly skilled workers. That's why they flee to London, Germany, North America… :-)

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#373

Post by hoorayimhelping »

School-Cotton wrote: post #346
renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

>I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France.

This kind of braggadocio statement is why the hate for tech workers is growing. It shows a serious lack of perspective and an incredible amount of arrogance and condescension.

It's also very untypical, even for a skilled tech worker in America.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#374

Post by ptaipale »

jlangenauer wrote: post #136
blibble wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people have asked specific questions like "am I going to be able to continue to live here?" ... they haven't recieved answers. the UK Government is has stated it will guarantee the right for EU citizens to remain, if the same right is given to Britons in rEU, however the European Union refuses to engage on the issue ("no negotiation without notification")

It most certainly has not: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/09/uk-eu-citize...

That article doesn't say what you apparently think. Just like blibble, I have to ask if you read the first line.

"Home Office says in letter that it cannot give unilateral assurances until status of Britons in other EU countries is protected"

(emphasis mine)

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#375

Post by sulam »

rublev wrote: post #368
School-Cotton wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. What do you do?

If s/he works for a public company, this is totally in line with total compensation at that experience level after you factor in stock. There are many places where you can get this level of comp. Of course, your stock package has to be worth something -- this person is almost certainly not getting over $200K in base salary alone, and if they are I would echo your question -- "what do you do?" -- and add another -- "who do you do it for?"

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#376

Post by [deleted] »

rubber_duck wrote: post #359
renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

[deleted]

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#377

Post by chrisper »

rublev wrote: post #368
School-Cotton wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. What do you do?

He probably included the extra stuff, like equity, bonuses etc. and not just the salary.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#378

Post by jeandejean »

eloisant wrote: post #312
jeandejean wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get it wrong, we're not lacking interesting tech jobs at all, we're lacking interesting salaries.

Actually things have been changing in the recent years. We're seeing bigger investment, so startups can afford bigger salaries. Also multinational companies (like Google, Facebook) are opening engineering and R&D offices in France, driving up the salaries. Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a produ…

By the way, Google and Facebook jobs numbers in France are just anecdotal…

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#379

Post by mfo »

jasonlotito wrote: post #356
EduardoBautista wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never found the healthcare argument to be relevant. Software Engineers in the USA usually have generous health care plans provided by their employers. Same with vacation time.

To continue with the healthcare argument, "top-notch healthcare" is debatable. Autism support in France is not good at all. People always like to think of healthcare as a single entity, a single package. Either it's good or it's bad as a whole. The truth is, it's not.

Autism in France is addressed ; autists kids have special classes in public schools (with non autist kids, so they share free time, lunch etc...., this kinds of system is aka as IME). Also those kids are mixed with non-autist kids during classes (a few hours a week). All in all, the system try it's hardest to make them feel normal (IMO).

What would you expect from a society dealings with disabled (nothing bad) ?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#380

Post by user5994461 »

eloisant wrote: post #319
frwo wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it…

Things got better in recent years, but in France startups have a hard time raising much money so they often offer a salary that's below average. They get away with arguments like "the job is interesting" (probably true compared to IT service industry) and "you'll get rich on stock options if the company get big" (usually a lie). It's good that the government is trying to encourage foreigners to start their startup in…

You're also lacking the qualifications and the people to execute. The country is brain drained like mad.
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