Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience • Hacker News Board

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#371

Post by vkjv » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 1:11 PM UTC

dalore wrote: post #349

cs2818 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more concerned about the the level of access the monitoring software has to my computer and any services with vulnerabilities it might leave behind. I think I'd only consider doing this if I used a computer I could wipe completely before and after. Even then the amount of distrust is off-putting.

There is an idea! Have them mail out laptops to do the tests on and you mail them back in.

Strangely I really like this. It starts the relationship off with trust instead.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#372

Post by mathattack » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #215

dgritsko wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not do an onsite if you want to make sure of the validity? Convenience and logistics. Is it worth yours (or Amazon's) time to pay for travel expenses, when applicants could literally be located anywhere? Evidently not, at least not in the early stages of the process.

If it's not worth Amazon's time to interview me in person then it's not worth my time to consider them as a potential employer. This is just lazy and they will end up with lower quality candidates because of it.

This seems to be a way for them to screen for the 1000s of entry level applicants, who don't have large supporting work histories. They need to screen them somehow. One way is "Only from this list of schools." Another is "Based on what some person thinks of your resume writing ability as a new engineering grad." Another is "Based on what our algorithm thinks of your ability to place keywords in your resume." I don't think this is that much worse an alternative for those who may not have other means to get into a prestigious company.

When I was last in school I struggled with "networking your way into a company" and wound up landing my internship (and ultimately full employment) on the one company who offered a test before the "Fly you out to meet us" step.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#373

Post by alon7 » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 1:29 PM UTC

Why not agree with the terms and boot up an Ubuntu live CD, install chromium and do the tests

That way they only get the microphone, webcam and physical location which is annoying but not as worst

If you cancel the microphone and the webcam, will they still let you do the test? What if I have a desktop computer with no webcam?

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#374

Post by dagw » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 1:38 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #250

chipperyman573 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a test with ProctorU a few months ago for my university class. It didn't seem creepy at all. They installed LogMeIn and watched my webcam, but as soon as the exam was over they disabled both. It's just a way of making sure there isn't any cheating.

I can't believe what I'm reading. A university installed effectively spyware on your device, to watch you as you were sitting an exam? I sat about a dozen university exams in the last couple of years and in no instance did I have someone staring at my face, or peeking over my shoulder, during them. There were always supervisors in the theater, but they mostly walked along the aisles of desks and made sure to be unobt…

I really don't see any justification for what you describe.

In the case you describe you have to be physically present at a fixed location at a fixed time. In many cases that might be inconvenient or impossible, and I can certainly see situations where it'd be nice to have an alternative. Not having to have my physical location coincide with the physical location of my university of choice could be quite handy.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#375

Post by gravypod » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 1:53 PM UTC

dgritsko wrote: post #107

kafkaesq wrote: post #18

The following information will be collected during the duration of the exam: Your microphone Your webcam Your physical location Your head movements Your eye movements Your mouth movements Creepy as all get-out. By all means, lets have more leaks like this.

It's worth noting that these are Proctorio's ( https://proctorio.com/ ) restrictions; they're just a third-party company that Amazon is using to administer the test. I've used a couple of similar systems (e.g. ProctorU - https://www.proctoru.com/ , where a human will actually watch you via webcam(!), or ProctorTrack - http://www.proctortrack.com/ ), and "monitoring" of this sort is pretty much par for the course (no…

> ProctorU - https://www.proctoru.com/, where a human will actually watch you via webcam

I'd just take it naked. I'm a fat hairy guy. I'm sure it'll be fun for all of us.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#376

Post by edblarney » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

kafkaesq wrote: post #18

The following information will be collected during the duration of the exam: Your microphone Your webcam Your physical location Your head movements Your eye movements Your mouth movements Creepy as all get-out. By all means, lets have more leaks like this.

That they have the webcam and microphone is not 'creepy'.

They just want you to be able to take a test remotely without cheaters.

If this were a regular website, sure, but it's for a specific reason, during a specific event, that ultimately you are participating in.

If you were to go and 'take an exam' on Amazon campus - they'd be doing the same thing - but a human proctor would be looking for the same things :)

I think the contextualization of it (i.e. it's 'your home') definitely seems 'creepy' - but I don't think it's a cause for concern - there's a reason they are doing it, it's not nefarious, they are open about it.

Again - it may feel a little creep-show because we're not used to this, or rather, in any other situation it would be truly creepy ... but I don't think there is cause for concern here.

I also think that the logical questions are not unreasonable.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#377

Post by edblarney » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #29

zeppelin101 wrote: post #4

Wait, I see nothing wrong with any of this. Obviously Amazon is trying to curb cheating on remote coding/compatibility tests. They don't actually care to collect any info about you beyond what you do during the test. They don't care which websites you visit before or after the test. Or how you use your clipboard - after the test. But during the test, it's not so unreasonable. People do cheat, especially if they can g…

In a practical sense, it's not much different from a math instructor having you clear the memory on your graphing calculator before an exam; it's an anti-cheating measure and given that this is an online assessment, it almost makes sense. However, from a philosophical point of view, it's Draconian and unnerving. What assurance does the interviewee have that Amazon isn't storing and using all this telemetry? Amazon is…

" it's Draconian and unnerving"

Let's chill here, 'Draconian' is a strong word.

'What if Amazon is using the data for nefarious purposes'.

It's a reasonable conclusion, but also a big 'what if' :)

Their motivation is pretty reasonable - they just want you to be able to take a test remotely.

They 'dictate the process, right down to the extension' for reasonable cause.

It's reasonable to ponder the ways in which there could be bad things going on, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume that there is, or even malicious intent here.

It just 'seems' creepy.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#378

Post by literallycancer » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #75

morganvachon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a practical sense, it's not much different from a math instructor having you clear the memory on your graphing calculator before an exam; it's an anti-cheating measure and given that this is an online assessment, it almost makes sense. However, from a philosophical point of view, it's Draconian and unnerving. What assurance does the interviewee have that Amazon isn't storing and using all this telemetry? Amazon is…

> However, from a philosophical point of view, it's Draconian and unnerving. What assurance does the interviewee have that Amazon isn't storing and using all this telemetry? How is that different from being recorded by multiple cameras during an on-site interview? I honestly don't see why the information they're collecting is a big deal. They are remotely interviewing you for a position, and would like to minimize ch…

>while clearly telling you upfront what kind data will be collected

It doesn't even satisfy the legal requirements for informing people their personal data is going to be collected (in my country at least). They don't tell you what happens to the data, who has access to it, they don't provide a way to let them know you want it deleted, and so on.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#379

Post by edblarney » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 2:12 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

Wow, can't believe I'm seeing people justifying/defending this--on HN of all places! This is unacceptably invasive, and if this is a glimpse of the future of getting a job, we're all in for a lot of trouble. If you think this kind of information is acceptable to monitor/record during an interview, what on earth do you think is off-limits?? Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifyi…

""just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifying the police putting a camera in everyone's living room"

This is a completely false comparison.

You are taking a test remotely, they want to make sure you are not cheating, it's completely reasonable - during the duration of a test.

It's beyond unfair to suggest that this is in the same category of 'state authorities putting cameras in your house to arbitrarily spy on you' or putting a GPS collar on you.

I suggest it would help if in the terms that Amazon spelled out that they are not storing any data or what-not.

We live in a new world of tech, we have to think a little bit about what these things mean, and when we can apply tech reasonably and when we cannot, we can't just be knee-jerk about it.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#380

Post by Bartweiss » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #305

Bartweiss wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minus one year. I had my resume up on several job sites. I got an email using the name (and a plausible email) for a real, quality software company that sent me a list of HR-type questions. I sent some answers (no PII involved), and they told me I had the job and asked for some bank account information. That obviously set off some alarms, so I followed up with the company and found out that they were being impersonat…

> and they told me I had the job and asked for some bank account information. Wow. The worst thing is that collecting this information isn't even a red flag when starting a new job, although it's always been done when I get there in person on day 1 for me. My current job required mountains of background checks and verification, more than enough to do some thorough identity theft. This was setup through a recruiter I…

I'm fairly sure this would have tipped you off - they made the offer with no technical questions or onsite, after talking to only one person, and asked for bank account info before a start date. A little more effort and they might well have gotten me, though.

I can only imagine what a placement company or recruiter could do, just by doing the real job for a bit then bailing with the personal data obtained. It's not pretty, since job offers are such a standard reason to cough up PII.