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Switching from macOS: The Basics

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#371

Post by jablan »

anondon wrote: post #12

The software is there, but what about the hardware to go with it? The only laptops comparable to Macbook Pro hardware quality and battery life are the Dell XPS series and the Thinkpad X1. I feel there is a serious shortage of good laptops with linux pre-installed that the non-technical user can pickup and start using.

What about Apple's hardware quality really makes that much of a difference? Is it really that important for a tool which is meant to be replaced in 3 years to be made from machined aluminum and beautifully designed (sometimes even at expense of usability)? Up until 5 years ago we were perfectly happy and productive using laptops with 3-4 hours battery life. Did our habits and requirements changed that much that anything below, what, 12 hours of battery life is scandalous and unacceptable?

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#372

Post by jhasse »

reitanqild wrote: post #332
equalarrow wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora is ahead of RedHat server, kernel and package-wise. That's the point: pish the edge with the desktop, keep the server conservative and very stable. RedHat makes their money on support licensing for the server. Employees are paid to work on Fedora, but it is not the RedHat product.

Fedora is also the only mainstream distro I ever gave up on, admittedly 5 or so years ago but still.

Why?

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#373

Post by tlrobinson »

equalarrow wrote: post #305
aroman wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described elementary (fwiw, it is a for-profit LLC). I think you're massively underestimating the magnitude and difficulty of what you're seeking. elementary has been at this for 5 years and made an immense amount of progress, though. But it's definitely still not at the level of Apple, which has had decades and billions of dollars poured into this. It's not a "paid OS" in that it doesn't force you to pay a…

I think this is one big problem with the OSS community: there is no concept of 'value'. People complain about iOS' race to the bottom, but in the OSS community, I frel like this has been there for a long time. "You want to _charge me for it_ ?! Pffft!" We may complain about macOS now with Sierra but for thr most part, macOS has been stable for a long time. I haven't seen a kernel panic in probably a decade. Not sayin…

Ironically, Elementary might have an easier time charging money for it if they positioned it less as an open source project. macOS is built largely atop open source software, and while they do make the GPL'd sources available for download they're not nearly enough to compile an OS with an experience approaching macOS.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#374

Post by yulaow »

fizzbatter wrote: post #171
goombastic wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other problem is that laptops are being built like mobile phones, with everything soldered to the board and the whole thing either sealed shut or taped down. Upgradeable & portable laptops just dont seem to exist at the price points they used to.

Fwiw, i sort of like that. I understand it really sucks not being able to replace chips, especially something as simple as adding RAM, but i've not really seen a super compact laptop also allow me to replace RAM easily. My Macbook Pro Retina is quite compact, and it's proven to be a really important trait. If someone makes them as compact and replaceable i'm on board, i just haven't seen it. Not saying it's not possi…

I personally value far more the possibility to easily replace hw (battery for sure, cpu, ram, and ssd at minimum, but even looking also for screen, keyboard and wlan cards). For me is a good compromise in exchange of even 1-2 cm more in thickness.

Just recently I was looking for a new laptop and ended up buying a refurbished thinkpad t430 (270e with 8gb [gonna become 16] ram, ssd and i5 3rd gen)just because I am sure I can change basically every part of it whenever I want for a low price.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#375

Post by rhodysurf »

72deluxe wrote: post #86
Void_ wrote: post #39

I'm really hoping this is just a phase. Hoping that Apple will reduce prices of new laptops and we'll be back to normal. Right now everybody is using Macs. Walk into the Bay Area coffee shop, you see Macs everywhere. I love that. I build desktop software for Macs (focuslist.co). My apps are prettier than any others. They are easier and faster to use. This is the reason why people pay me $5 while they can get the job…

No offence intended but I took a look at your website (which is very neat and tidy BTW), and looked at the screenshots but I do not see how your app (consisting of mainly a listview control) is "prettier than any others". I can see how having a simple UI with few controls on it can sometimes be translated as "pretty" in certain circles, but simply having few features and few controls doesn't magically mean your app i…

You could quite easily make an application that looks like that in either GTK or Qt and fits with the current desktop theme on Linux

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#376

Post by ashark »

kabdib wrote: post #92
pqdbr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new MacBooks are so lackluster that for the first time in 11 years I'm actually considering Windows options, and I also arrived at Razer as the best option out there. They look amazing and performance and connectivity wise blow the new macs out of the water. In the end, its macOS that's still holding me back. Haven't decided yet tough.

Windows is getting better, but it will still make you very angry. The update system makes me howl. The shell is pale shadow of the MacOS terminal (you can kind of fix this with other shells, but the app-restore behavior after a reboot? Gone, and Windows reboots a lot compared to MacOS).

> but the app-restore behavior after a reboot? Gone, and Windows reboots a lot compared to MacOS

It's annoying enough on my gaming machine, I can't imagine using Win10 on a device I use for serious work. Reboots seemingly every 36 hours or so. Their update system is totally out of control.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#377

Post by module0000 »

pjmlp wrote: post #77
pmlnr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take Mac away and high quality desktop apps will go away. Well... no. Ubuntu, Gnome, KDE, XFCE; they are all high quality desktops. Don't mix the desktop with the applications you're running on it. > We'll have to endure multi-platform Electron stuff. Now that is indeed a real issue, and yes, ugh. Edit: I've misread the original, sorry, so adding a few things: if you're using the default apps or the ones built for…

Not really. GNU/Linux doesn't have desktop stack capable of matching Objective-C, Swift frameworks both in feature set and related GUI tooling.

> GNU/Linux doesn't have desktop stack capable of matching Objective-C, Swift frameworks both in feature set and related GUI tooling.

Qt alone exceeds the feature set, has more GUI tooling, and is multi-platform. That's just Qt, and the same could be said for GTK. I'm not slinging mud at Obj-c and the frameworks Apple maintains, but they are not unique snowflakes without equal.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#378

Post by achikin »

annoying_tech wrote: post #79
Void_ wrote: post #39

I'm really hoping this is just a phase. Hoping that Apple will reduce prices of new laptops and we'll be back to normal. Right now everybody is using Macs. Walk into the Bay Area coffee shop, you see Macs everywhere. I love that. I build desktop software for Macs (focuslist.co). My apps are prettier than any others. They are easier and faster to use. This is the reason why people pay me $5 while they can get the job…

> Mac developers don't want to just get the job done. They want to get the job done while winning an Apple Design Award. Well, thats kind of a narcissistic statement. How many people develop for Windows? How many for Linux? How many for Mac? oh. I try to make my software as beautiful as I can, and keep a simple and usable UX. There are developers who don't care about guidelines, or design. That's not a platform fault…

> "There are developers who don't care about guidelines, or design. That's not a platform fault, is just that there are developers who just want the job done, even in a ugly fashion."

And that is the biggest problem in software world, that's why our computers are full of half-baked, ugly, poor documented and uncompatible programs - because someone "just wanted to get job done".

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#379

Post by Void_ »

jswny wrote: post #310
Void_ wrote: post #39

I'm really hoping this is just a phase. Hoping that Apple will reduce prices of new laptops and we'll be back to normal. Right now everybody is using Macs. Walk into the Bay Area coffee shop, you see Macs everywhere. I love that. I build desktop software for Macs (focuslist.co). My apps are prettier than any others. They are easier and faster to use. This is the reason why people pay me $5 while they can get the job…

> This is thanks to Mac as a platform. Mac developers don't want to just get the job done. They want to get the job done while winning an Apple Design Award. That's why Mac apps are the best. This may be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read on HN.

I've read far worse and all I meant by that comment is praise to other Mac developers.

Re: Switching from macOS: The Basics

#380

Post by hajile »

RandomOpinion wrote: post #364
module0000 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an OSS contributor, I _do_ begrudge him for it - and this is why. If you were to email Elementary and ask for support with a non-working 'sg' kernel module, I would be highly surprised if they offered you any support. More likely, they would tell you to contact one of the authors, who did not receive one dime for our work. He takes your money, and shirks off supporting you to people that _didn't_ take your money.…

> As an OSS contributor, I _do_ begrudge him for it - and this is why. If you were to email Elementary and ask for support with a non-working 'sg' kernel module, I would be highly surprised if they offered you any support. More likely, they would tell you to contact one of the authors, who did not receive one dime for our work. He takes your money, and shirks off supporting you to people that _didn't_ take your money…

That's kinda the point. He pushes for donations, but doesn't offer support. It's not illegal for him to not offer support and it's not illegal for me to not pay him.

I would prefer to pay a reasonable subscription fee with a support contract which is also not illegal, but benefits all parties.

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