Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat • Hacker News Board

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#371

Post by eru » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:29 AM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #290

cthalupa wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of disparity on what vegetarian means in India too. It varies by region and caste and plenty of other things. Some find eggs, fish, and other things acceptable, some don't, and only ~30% of observant Hindus would fit a strict definition of vegetarian. Brahmins are often more strict, etc etc.

Good to know. Reminds me of my favorite expression. "Inside the U.S., a hundred years is a long time. Outside the U.S., a hundred miles is a long distance".

Australia is inside the US by that definition. And Russians will just love at you about both.

(Your expression works better with "England" in place of "Outside the US".)

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#372

Post by vacri » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:30 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #156

firethief wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an order of magnitude more cattle than there have been equivalent buffalos?

Hmm, I was going to say "No way!" but looking around it seems like 60M buffalo back in the day [1] and at times 100M cows [2], certainly not "order of magnitude" but more cows that buffalo. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#Range_and_popul... [2] http://www.cattlenetwork.com/advice-and-tips/cowcalf-produce...

100M is an order of magnitude more than 60M, by definition. "order of magnitude" doesn't mean "ten times as much", it means "you have to use another column to describe it"... and so 1x10^8 is an order of magnitude more than 6x10^7...

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#373

Post by eru » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:32 AM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #129

delecti wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same definition of "vegetarian" that I do Can you elaborate?

Sure. Usually it boils down to whether fish/seafood is considered vegetarian, but sometimes it also includes broth or animal byproducts. For the purposes of definition, I use the below, which appears to be the general consensus definitions in America, though I'm sure some will dispute this. Vegetarian: (also called ovo-lacto vegetarian) No meat (including fish/seafood). Eggs, dairy, and honey are okay. Byproducts tha…

The monk training food is a good one.

If you are traveling in southeast asia, and want vegan food, ask for buddhist food. (Alas, that also precludes garlic and onion, but that's a small sacrifice in exchange for having an easy shorthand to explain vegan food.)

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#374

Post by bsder » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:34 AM UTC

TheLarch wrote: post #255

bsder wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some vegans do it because raising livestock is unsustainable. There is not enough land on earth for everyone to have a meat diet. I'm dubious about this statement. There is a lot of ocean, so seafood farming is probably quite capable of feeding humans meat. In addition, western societies currently overconsume meat. I suspect that if calorically balanced levels of consumption were observed, we probably have plenty o…

One pound of beef requires 1,847 gallons of water. Cattle produce a huge amount of methane. Ranchers use antibiotics profligately. Cows require a terrific amount of energy to grow, relative to plants, meaning lots of the corn we grow in the US goes to meat, which is far less energy efficient.

Um, you do realize that most nuts require in the same range of water, right?

Hazlenuts, walnuts, almonds, and cashews need from 1100 to 1900 gallons per pound.

So, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove other than don't farm things that require water in areas that also require irrigation.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#375

Post by eru » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:36 AM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #293

delecti wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same definition of "vegetarian" that I do Can you elaborate?

My definition, which tell people at restaurants, is 'nothing that had eyes except potatoes.' it's succinct, and everyone gets it. I'm fine with eggs, though, so YMMV.

Leaves a few loopholes, but nothing anybody could exploit with anything they had at a typical restaurant. And easy to understand.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#376

Post by geon » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 6:56 AM UTC

markbao wrote: post #151

munificent wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem here is that "vegan" is used to describe two different things: 1. A product that has been changed to not use any animal products. 2. A product that already fits within those constraints. Products in the former group have a history of being noticeably worse than their non-vegan counterpart, so "vegan" carries the stigma of "tastes worse than it looks". That stigma then wafts over to products in the…

That's a great point. I wonder if there's an elegant/clean way to denote that something is vegan but not changed to be vegan. "Naturally fat-free" is good, and the sort of plant logo that some restaurants use at least avoid the word "vegan" which may help.

"Low carbon"?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#377

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 7:01 AM UTC

makeset wrote: post #342

adrusi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the parent would be upset if secretly served chicken, not because they would feel defrauded, but because they were tricked intol violating their ethical principles. Secretly serving non-vegetarians vegetarian food is, technically, fraud, but it's not disrespecting their morality. That fraud might be slightly immoral (I don't think it is, but it's a topic for debate), but it's easily offset by the potential f…

Hell, no. People may be eating what they choose to eat with just as much moral conviction as your vegetarianism. That is not for you to decide. You have no right to deceive others about what they are putting into their body, let alone in hopes of "convincing" or converting them. You have no right to physically force your own morality upon others without their informed consent. Think about what you have just argued fo…

It helps not to get too theoretical when it comes to morality. Someone that eats turkey and not vegetables out of moral conviction? That's not a sane thing to worry about and compensate for. There is a 0% chance of that being the case. If you worried about preferences that obscure/made-up you'd forbid every category of food, every color of food, every texture of food...

On top of that, it's very likely that every ingredient in the "turkey loaf" was something that would not be out of place in an actual turkey loaf. In other words, no ingredients being secretly added, just one being removed.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#378

Post by saynsedit » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 7:29 AM UTC

aninhumer wrote: post #251

saynsedit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cruel to take a human's blood without their consent, even if done painlessly.

I don't think it would be cruel for animals, because once you remove pain as a factor, the only suffering left for humans exists on a psychological level that I don't believe animals would experience.

Okay, I don't believe you would suffer at a psychological level either, does that give me the right to take your blood without your consent?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#379

Post by galtwho » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 7:49 AM UTC

fakemeatsubs wrote: post #232

pvelagal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Indian restaurants try to focus more on taste of the dish and hence the dishes tend to be not-so-healthy. But, traditional Indian cooking doesn't have the same levels of oils or clarified butter. The dishes are pretty healthy and filling too. Things have gotten bad only since the past 2-3 decades with the adoption of hydrogenated oils, refined grains.

My experience runs slightly against yours. Yes the restaurant food is more on the tasty but unhealthy. But even in general I've found the vegetarian indian diet to still be high in fats and sugar. Empirically (I havent checked the data on this) theres a lot of diabetes (related to carbohydrates) and cholesterol problems in india (related to fats, kind of). my call is despite being vegetarian, the typical indian isn't…

>> the typical indian isn't any more healthier than say the typical american if we're just looking at diet alone.

but is eating tasty non-meat food that is lot less destructive to the environment.

that cuts to the meat of the argument against non meat( which in the West means fake meat or vegan foods) being non tasty..

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#380

Post by galtwho » Wed, Jun 22, 2016, 7:52 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #369

wil421 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a vegetarian but I do go out with many Indian colleagues who are vegetarian and have family members or friends who dont eat meat. I do agree with the assumption that western vegetarians tend to want meat replacements. The biggest difference for me was seeing how a lot of Indian cuisine is actually unhealthy. Most everything is fried in oil or has so much clarified butter its unhealthy. The Indian diet (at least t…

Why is oil and butter unhealthy? (Indians seem to have a crazy sweet tooth, as far as I can tell. I like desserts, but Indian ones are usually way too much for me.)

it is not. Atleast as per this UK study[1]

Which suggest lots of Indian vegetarian food is indeed healthy

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...