Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Being a Developer After 40

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 583 posts

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#371

Post by odonnellryan »

ManlyBread wrote: post #105

The article was pretty good until this part. >If you are a white male remember all the privilege you have enjoyed since birth just because you were born that way. It is your responsibility to change the industry and its bias towards more inclusion. I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm…

I don't understand this mentality. I see it all the time.

You're a part of a community. You've taken advantage of the community in the past: there is always an obligation to contribute positively back to the community.

The author is saying they think diversity is positive to the community. You can argue against that point, but you aren't: you're saying contributing is bad.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#372

Post by odonnellryan »

ManlyBread wrote: post #105

The article was pretty good until this part. >If you are a white male remember all the privilege you have enjoyed since birth just because you were born that way. It is your responsibility to change the industry and its bias towards more inclusion. I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm…

I don't understand this mentality. I see it all the time.

It isn't black and white. You're a part of a community. You've taken advantage of the community in the past: there is always an obligation to contribute positively back to the community.

The author is saying they think diversity is positive to the community. You can argue against that point, but you aren't: you're saying contributing is bad.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#373

Post by JohnBooty »

Domenic_S wrote: post #350
JohnBooty wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bingo. Race is just one facet anyway. There's no part of examining privilege that says race is the only facet of one's existence soooooo at least you don't disagree with it there. To even make a statement like that is like getting mad at "breast cancer awareness" because "it's not the only kind of cancer." I can't emphasize enough that literally nobody is claiming that race is the only facet of one's existence.

The only facet that matters, then? Or, combined with gender the only facets that matter or let you be a part of the discussion? I've been told off + blocked on twitter for chiming in about something I have intimate personal experience with, because white male. Or the semi-famous video "you're a WHITE MALE!" (language warning) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0diJNybk0Mw

While white privilege and male privilege are important realities, I don't think they are the only things that matter.

If it helps to hear this from a white male who is a believer in recognizing white privilege and male privilege: being white and/or being male are sometimes disadvantages too!

In most of America, you can't be male and teach young kids these days. People (parents) will wonder if you're a child molester, and get weirded out by the prospect of you helping kids go to the bathroom even though they'd be fine with a female teacher doing the same thing.

Recognizing something like that isn't incompatible with recognizing male privilege.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#374

Post by wavefunction »

flexie wrote: post #263
AlexeyBrin wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my traveling experience the cost of food in large cities in Bulgaria and Romania is about the same as the cost of food in Canada. Yes, they have (much) lower wages there and they will accept your low offer because they have no better choice to make more money. Please don't delude yourself in believing you pay them a fair/decent price. You just pay them better than what they could make locally.

Oh, please. From my experience living in the US and now living in the capital of Bulgaria I know that the price of food, housing etc. is way lower here than in the valley or NYC. Easily 3 times cheaper. And the tax is lower too. But don't take my word for it: https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/sofia/s... ? A decent full stack developer in his early 20s with no or little college education and 2-4 yea…

>>now living in the capital of Bulgaria I know that the price of food, housing etc. is way lower here than in the valley or NYC. Easily 3 times cheaper

You're comparing two of the most expensive places in the world to Bulgaria, it's likely that your statement is true of many parts of the US.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#375

Post by logfromblammo »

JohnBooty wrote: post #280
mhurron wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> basic rights we take for granted (for example, walking into a store and not being treated as a potential thief, or having prospective interviewers assume we're professional/literate/presentable) are actually privileges that many people or color don't have. You are aware that Irish and Eastern Europeans, and on and off through history Greek and Italian, have had all those same problems right? You know that 'White Pr…

I'll keep this polite and assume you're intelligent and informed, a courtesy you did not extend to me. You are aware that Irish and Eastern Europeans, and on and off through history Greek and Italian, have had all those same problems right? I'm very, very aware of that fact. Hey, for the record, I'm partly Welsh. The Welsh have been oppressed by everybody! They're pretty damn white. Literally nobody is denying that I…

I smell cheese coming out from your window. You been driving under the influence tonight? Maybe chasing the red dragon?

Out of the car and put your hands on the hood, Taffy.

Am I going to find any sheep or coal in your vehicle, sir? Maybe some really bland food?

~

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#376

Post by jazzyk »

interpol_p wrote: post #268
ManlyBread wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It just means, for example, that it probably would have been even harder if you were an Eastern European woman who grew up in a poor family. Women here get hired easier (because US companies have the same policy for quotas, Intel is notorious for this), I know women who got an internship purely because they were women, there are free bootcamps and classes targeting women... not to mention all these special programs…

Let's look at the stats. Apple's diversity report [1] states their tech employees are composed of 79% male, 22% female. Facebook's diversity report [2] shows 85% males in tech vs 15% female. Google's is pretty much the same, and you can compare them all with interactive graphs [3]. Note the dominance of white and male in the graphs. The programs you mention for women are great, I agree. These are the steps we need to…

About 18% of computer science graduates are women [1], so Apple (22% female) discriminates against men and Facebook (15%) discriminates against women.

Yes, the above is partly tongue-in-cheek (I realize that not all employees are programmers). I am just trying to make a point that companies hire from a pool of qualified candidates (with college degree usually being the "qualified" selector). So if the pool consists of 18% women, companies will likely not have more than 18% women as programmers.

As to why 18% of computer science graduates are women is a completely separate discussion from the topic at hand.

[1] http://fortune.com/2015/04/20/the-pervasive-bias-against-fem...

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#377

Post by morgante »

ManlyBread wrote: post #105

The article was pretty good until this part. >If you are a white male remember all the privilege you have enjoyed since birth just because you were born that way. It is your responsibility to change the industry and its bias towards more inclusion. I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm…

That statement, along with the clueless repetition that "women are paid 70% of what men are paid" really turned me off from the piece.

I agree that racism and sexism are problems. I definitely try to not be racist and sexist myself. I even try to actively correct for my own unconscious bias.

But it's not my responsibility to fix sexism in the tech industry. I'd rather focus on some other problems which I think are more serious—global extreme poverty, for example—and that shouldn't be a moral failing on my part.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#379

Post by BurningFrog »

thedz wrote: post #305
maratd wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It jsut paints such a simplistic view of the world, not a real one, but one that is useful for rhetoric. Bingo. Race is just one facet anyway. We're all born with various advantages and disadvantages, none of which we have any control over. Just as an example, some people are better looking than others ... and those people tend to have an advantage, because they're better looking. They can get better jobs, better p…

> That's how life works. Stop whining. No, life isn't fair. Deal with it. I realize that the context is different in the U.S. vs the rest of the world, but would you say "life isn't fair, deal with it" to slaves in the South in the 1800s? Or to segregated blacks in the 1900s? Or to women who couldn't vote? Or, to use a more modern example, to Muslims who are facing prejudice and persecution because of the actions of…

The first three are examples of government regulations explicitly favoring some groups over others.

That is fundamentally different from a society with legal equality for all individuals. Yes, some groups will be more popular than others. It's hard to see how that can ever be avoided.

Of course, if you are a slave, you do really need to deal with that situation as best as you can. Does anyone dispute that?

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#380

Post by fucking_tragedy »

hueving wrote: post #237
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking about America, certain white people certainly profited from stirring up racism here for centuries. We don't even have to look back to when slavery was legal, the blatant use of racism and dog-whistle politics to gain white racist's votes is well documented as being the core tenet to the Southern strategy.

Some white people a long time ago had slaves, therefore all white people including those that immigrated just recently are unfairly privileged. Yawn. It's such a nonsensical argument that I'm surprised anyone can even use it in a non sarcastic way.

Thank you for reading past the sentence you decided to respond to.
Post reply on HN