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Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

nytimes.com

371–376 of 376 posts

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#371
This case is bad ground for arguments against backdoors.

The government doesn't want a backdoor. They want Apple to remove barriers slowing and limiting the number of guesses at the key. If the key were longer, those barriers wouldn't be needed. So this isn't about strong encryption, without backdoors. It's about some sort of right to short, memorizable keys, and technical barriers protecting them.

Now maybe we have such rights. (I don't think so, I do think we have a right to strong encryption and strong keys.) But that's a very different argument than "backdoors are bad". If Apple's case is "no backdoors", they make that argument look not like a technical argument but a preference to not comply with a warrant. Non-technical people could easily get the idea that technical people say "no backdoors" when they just don't agree with the government's ability to execute warrants, and that all the technical arguments about real security are mumbo jumbo to avoid obeying laws they don't care for.

Using strong encryption with phones is a usability issue. If the phone were somehow protected by a strong key, Apple could easily comply with this order and the government still could't read the phone. But they haven't figured out how a user can deploy a strong key in some usable fashion. Well, that's obviously a challenge to phone data privacy. I expect it is solvable. And it is much less an issue in contexts like desktops and laptops.

But we have a right to encryption. We don't have a right to usability. Claiming the two are the same weakens the case to the right we do have.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#372
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. I've spent time in jail after getting picked up at a protest. All charges eventually dropped. Knowing you're there for the right reasons, with strong outside support makes a huge difference. I'd gladly take some jail time on a fight like this.

> All charges eventually dropped Care to say what were the charges originally?

Charges were pretty ridiculous actually. Everyone got disorderly conduct, and something about carrying weapons ('sharpened sticks', aka protest signs, which, in fact, I wasn't).

It was an excellent lesson in how arbitrary and asymmetric the criminal justice system is. The police are basically free to make shot up on the police reports, and it was only because we had so many people with identical reports with egregious mistakes that we were able to fight them on the charges.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have spent your career improving privacy software.... this is going to be easy. It's a bit like worrying about establishing your religious bona fides if you're a bishop.

> It's a bit like worrying about establishing your > religious bona fides if you're a bishop I have created a whole lot of software for money. None of it gives any insight in to my conscience. A better example would be trying to establish religious bona fides as a result of being a carpenter who makes church pews.

To beat the analogy to death, only if people came to church primarily for the pews. The reason every bishop would have religious bona fides is because the job inherently requires the conviction. You wouldn't be a security researcher/engineer if you didn't believe in building secure systems. A web developer might be a carpenter in the analogy, sure they might be religious, but it's not inherent in their job.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#374
post #60

No matter what happens in this case, to the individual engineers or to Apple, the problem runs much deeper: - Government power and rights > individual power and rights. - Mass surveillance of their own people. - Constitution consistently ignored. - Civil liberties viewed as an annoyance. - Militarized police force. - Secret court systems that "OKs" any government action. - Mainstream media little more than an arm of…

>We have a word for this type of government but but no one is talking about it yet. What is the word to describe what we now have in the US?

Plutocracy?

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#375

Taking this further down the rabbit hole: Suppose that only about 5 people can do what the FBI wants done. Suppose all 5 refuse, to the point of quitting Apple. Does the FBI now compel them to return to Apple and write the software or go to jail? And what if one of those engineers says that he doesn't actually know how to do it; Apple only thought he could, but he actually can't. Now we get into territory of proving…

They could be fined hundreds of thousands daily for refusing to act. We recently found out this happened to Yahoo in 2008 [1] via the FISA court. Apple shareholders wouldn't like that. I'm pretty sure Tim Cook and his lawyer mean it when they say they will comply with the law. Apple engineers need not worry so much about quitting their jobs over this. If I were there I would stick with Tim Cook. Consider, If Apple lo…

"They could be fined hundreds of thousands daily for refusing to act. We recently found out this happened to Yahoo in 2008 [1] via the FISA court. Apple shareholders wouldn't like that."

How does that work if say someone resigned some months before the events of the terrorist attack from Apple? And they still refuse to work for Apple? There's no legal obligation for me to work for Apple or anybody in the US Constitution. All I got to do is pay taxes where applicable. Taxes don't include writing software for a random agency.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#376
post #103

"Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist" Um... no. Perhaps until they get a whiff of a professional, um, "motivator" in the guise of an FBI agent or carefully-chosen warden. Some of you guys crack under the pressure of solving a C++ warning. The guy who upvotes every "Ten things about being an Introvert" post at HN will last precisely ten seconds when presented with that reality. I admi…

Downvotes aside, looks like the anonymous postcard showed up right on cue: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/technology/apple-fbi-heari...

Apple shouldn't have been surprised by this. They will however pay a dear price for the posturing. And they will have wasted valuable public sentiment when the government tries again, which it will.

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