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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#371

Post by dragonwriter »

vox_mollis wrote: post #348
tempodox wrote: post #73

Justin Keller's own words about this seem to imply that he thinks Democracy is a state of decay in politics: http://justink.svbtle.com/open-letter-to-mayor-ed-lee-and-gr... This guy seems thoroughly unsavoury.

Plenty of intelligent people also hold that Democracy is a degenerate form of political organization. That doesn't make them "unsavoury". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed

> Plenty of intelligent people also hold that Democracy is a degenerate form of political organization. That doesn't make them "unsavoury".

"unsavoury" is a subjective judgement, and I suspect you will find that a substantial number of people will disagree with your opinion that holding this viewpoint does not make one "unsavoury".

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#372

Post by monkmartinez »

_b8r0 wrote: post #288
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. As someone who's been homeless twice, I appreciate that you don't intend to offend, but this is a very loaded and offensive statement. You appear to work with homeless people and have very little sympathy for their situation, which I can understand but it still makes me a little sad. Becoming homeless is somethi…

I have empathy for everyone. Sympathy is completely different. Why should I feel sorry for my regular that I've known for years and absolutely does not want help? I empathize with his situation as I wouldn't choose that lifestyle. Beyond that, society doesn't owe him anything.

It is complex and every story is different. I am sure if I knew every story, there would be some that I would feel sympathy and perhaps compelled to act... but so far, those have been very rare.

> Booze and drugs can sometimes be a simple manner of being able to sleep, or to get away from the situation you're in or how you got there. Choices that seem nonsensical for those who have a warm bed every night make perfect sense when you're worn down by the elements and incredibly poor sleep. After a while the prospect of having to deal with the build up of shit in your life and get shit together becomes a bigger mountain to climb than carrying on when you are, even though your everyday struggle is a mountain of shit in itself.

I am not guaranteed a warm bed every night. No one is, if you really think about it.

Further, you just described being a police officer, fire fighter/ems person with the stresses of the job. Suicide[1], booze/drugs, divorce, anger management are all unfortunate parts of the job for many. How they choose to deal with these issues are another matter entirely.

Sleep issues are a major pain point for me. I choose this life so I have had to develop strategies to deal with it. Some people can't deal with the stress, so they quit/move on, mask it with booze/drugs, have significant behavioural (anger) issues, or kill themselves. Sound familiar?

[1]http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseac...

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Firefighters-Addres...

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#373

Post by astrodust »

notthegov wrote: post #213
odonnellryan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless often have mental illnesses. Forget less severe illness, 1/3 have been found to have severe illness: http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mentall... So, it isn't they are homeless because they like the lifestyle, but it is often because of an illness that they prefer that lifestyle. We've all certainly felt extraordinary pressures related to common every-day life. Mental illness makes dea…

Where I live, it is more the opposite. People come here with irrational dreams, get on the street, fall into bad things, and then through dehydration, stress and living on the street, they become more irrational, and eventually permanently changed.

If you're homeless and turn to drugs to try and take the edge off, it can be hard to pull out of that downward spiral.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#374

Post by jboggan »

Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

Maybe this isn't a city government problem but a federal one. What would you think about re-enacting homesteading? About half the land in this country is federally owned. Why not offer 50 acres and a trailer to whomever would be willing to work and improve it?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#375

Post by vkou »

monkmartinez wrote: post #61
lhnz wrote: post #25

Certainly not very compassionate, but is it true that the homeless in San Francisco have a drug problem that is making the area unsafe? Is nobody trying to treat or house these people? Shouldn't people take this piece and use it as further evidence that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, rather than merely a culture war they can take part in? As usual, everybody want's to talk about how much of a 'bro' this g…

The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effort to kick the habits, contribute to society in a meaningful way, or tell you it is too late. The reality is a lot of them prefer the "lifestyle" and "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to do it. They have a completely differe…

I've never been homeless, but I do think that if you've been knocked down every time you try to get up, after a point, you'll stop trying to get up... Nor will you take a hand that's being offered.

Most of the help the homeless get is ephemeral, at best - and won't necessarily get them off the street. It's no wonder that many choose to not fight that fight.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#376

Post by nkrisc »

ryanlol wrote: post #188
nkrisc wrote: post #91

Somebody got a zero on their empathy roll.

What the hell does empathy have to do with this? He isn't blaming the homeless, he's blaming the city. He's asking for the city to address homelessness problem, how could possibly interpret that as lack of empathy?

I didn't at all get any sense from his letter that he wanted to help the homeless, but that as long as he didn't ever have to actually see or interact with people down on their luck, he'd be happy.

If all the homeless in San Francisco mysteriously "disappeared" one day, would he care? That may not be a fair question as we can't truly answer it, but I'd wager "no."

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#377

Post by [deleted] »

ktRolster wrote: post #168
joeguilmette wrote: post #140

I was in Chinatown talking to my grandmother on my cellphone. A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. SF has the worst homeless problem I've ever seen in the first world, and it rivals the worst of what I've seen in the third world. It's a disgrace and it sucks and I don't have to like it. Whatever the local/state government is doing isn't working. And sure, maybe a lot of the homeless are just normal…

> A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you?

[deleted]

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#378

Post by rodgerd »

marknutter wrote: post #278
felixgallo wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the 'mob' you're talking about is called 'civilization'. It's not 'growing fervor around [...] political correctness' that is driving the outrage; it's the deep-rooted, long-standing fervor about maintaining the minimum standard of being an empathetic, decent human being, which your friend has failed. It's possible to write a letter to the mayor demanding solutions. It's possible to roll up your sleeves and try to do…

> the 'mob' you're talking about is called 'civilization'. Really? Because it doesn't feel very civilized to me. It's a public lynching. You can express your differing opinion about the problem and the potential solutions, but to spend the majority of an article publicly ridiculing someone for a poorly worded expression of frustration is completely disgusting. > It's not 'growing fervor around [...] political correct…

> It's a public lynching.

This is hysterical nonsense and makes you look deranged.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#379

Post by vkou »

murbard2 wrote: post #156

Many people react with horror to the idea of policing homelessness. Yet, when given a choice to live between two identical cities, one permissive towards homelessness and the other not, I bet the vast majority would choose the latter. Many homeless people are down on their luck, have mental illness problems or both. Many homeless people can also be rude, aggressive, and can deteriorate the quality of life in a city b…

> Many people react with horror to the idea of policing homelessness. Yet, when given a choice to live between two identical cities, one permissive towards homelessness and the other not, I bet the vast majority would choose the latter.

Have you tried getting a homeless person's opinion on the subject?

Given the choice between a society where slaves don't serve you, and a society where they do, most slaveowners would probably choose the latter, too.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#380

Post by Lawtonfogle »

leshow wrote: post #171
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. This helps the short term homeless. Long term homeless often have problems that can't be met just by giving them housing.

by definition giving them housing would make them not homeless.

Assuming they would accept it and stay in it. As I said, that would work great for the short term homeless, but for many (not all) of the long term homeless, they have mental issues strong enough that they would end up homeless again.
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