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Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

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Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've qualified your words very well then; whenever someone calls you out for what you said, you can credibly backtrack to the fact that you didn't say much of anything. You would have a promising career in politics. What you imply has troublesome connotations, which you seem unwilling to honestly address, so you just insult me instead.

Your inferring something does not mean I implied it. Also, I didn't insult you, I mocked your eminently mockable argument. You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension if you want to be taken seriously. I'm not backtracking at all. I said that gender was clearly in play, and that it seemed reasonable to see his behaviors as misogynistic given the context. I stand by those statements.

> I didn't insult you... You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension if you want to be taken seriously.

That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me? It's reasonable to see your behavior as trolling. Learn to discuss things like an adult instead of making personal attacks and maybe I'll take your ideas seriously. As it stands, you're only discrediting yourself.

By the way, judging from my comment score at least four other people inferred the same thing from your comment that I did. That's a large enough number that maybe you're the one who didn't explain yourself clearly. Think about that before making any more comments about my reading comprehension.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do my comments really bother you so much that instead of comprehending and responding to them logically, your brain just short-circuits to spitting dismissive, insulting remarks? I'm not blaming Sarah for the veiled threat that was made against her--I think it's petty and disgusting for an Uber executive to sink to the level of a gossip blogger. I'm just saying that Sarah is a gossip blogger and will milk this thing…

Your comment did question the victim's validity. This may not be blaming in the literal sense of the word, but well within the expression. The point of all this is that even if the victim was an unreputable person (which I have no reason to believe here, but even if ) the data sifting and the threats are still wrong. Very wrong. Some people still find it important that the victim's qualities enter the discussion, and…

> The point of all this is that even if the victim was an unreputable person (which I have no reason to believe here, but even if) the data sifting and the threats are still wrong. Very wrong.

Agreed. If you follow the context of the comment thread, that's not the idea I was questioning.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Sarah's sensationalizing it because sensationalizing things is her business. That's all.

Let's assume that the Uber Executive was also doing his business then. Seems to me very clear that one's quite a bit deeper in the wrong than the other, "doing their business". (also, I disagree with the term "sensationalizing" when the facts of what actually happened are in fact already "sensational" enough to stand for themselves. Stating that you're worried about your children when someone calls to investigate and…

To "dig dirt" means to gather embarrassing private information about someone that could ruin their reputation. Exactly what information could you gather to embarass and discredit a small child? There's no logical way to interpret that as a threat against Sarah's kids, and I'm giving Sarah the benefit of assuming she's clever enough to realize that. Sarah brought her own damn kids into this to tug at the audience's heartstrings and make herself look more sympathetic.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, Paul and Sara have been on an absolute witch hunt, seemingly angry because of Travis' capitalist ideals. I'm not going to defend the guy that made these comments, but I've heard enough from Sara and Paul to know that Pando has waged war on Uber, and should not be surprised that they've ruffled some feathers. Pando also shares a common investor with Lyft, so there's that...

In all fairness, Paul and Sara have been on an absolute witch hunt, seemingly angry because of Travis' capitalist ideals. I've desperately avoided commenting on anything related to his because I've known Travis for about a decade, but... you are sadly mistaken. Uber has a downright toxic culture. Sarah might have gone a little far here and there, but it is not because Travis is capitalistic, but because he's turned i…

> I recently saw a lovely email sent by Travis for an offsite reminding everyone that they were not allowed to fuck their subordinates and he, by extension, was not allowed to fuck anyone.

What's wrong with that?

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your inferring something does not mean I implied it. Also, I didn't insult you, I mocked your eminently mockable argument. You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension if you want to be taken seriously. I'm not backtracking at all. I said that gender was clearly in play, and that it seemed reasonable to see his behaviors as misogynistic given the context. I stand by those statements.

> I didn't insult you... You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension if you want to be taken seriously. That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me? It's reasonable to see your behavior as trolling. Learn to discuss things like an adult instead of making personal attacks and maybe I'll take your ideas seriously. As it stands, you're only discrediting yourself. By the…

> That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me?

You are failing to comprehend the exact words I wrote in a way that I am having a hard time seeing as other than willful. Because of that, I'm taking you as a person with an axe to grind, not someone who's serious. So if you would like to be taken seriously...

And given that you leapt in to accuse me of being part of HUAC, calling me a troll is a little rich. Regardless, gender issues in tech are an interest of mine going back 20 years, so no, I am not trolling. But by all means keep up with the drama.

> By the way, judging from my comment score at least four other people inferred the same thing

Yes, that is the only possible interpretation of an upvote on Hacker News. Oh no! You have showed me! Chastened, I retreat from the field.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#366
As wrong-footed as Uber appears lately, don't take buzzfeed's word for anything. Dishonest trash-talking + a financial conflict of interest. Headline-baiting 'journalists' trying to steal attention+emotion for profit w/ gossipy attacks do need to consider their own glass house, especially when their sole productive output is stirring up drama.

Being agnostic on the Uber CEO's character (don't know him) I'd caution him to stop giving material to a nascent angry mob and those stoking it.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't insult you... You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension if you want to be taken seriously. That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me? It's reasonable to see your behavior as trolling. Learn to discuss things like an adult instead of making personal attacks and maybe I'll take your ideas seriously. As it stands, you're only discrediting yourself. By the…

> That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me? You are failing to comprehend the exact words I wrote in a way that I am having a hard time seeing as other than willful. Because of that, I'm taking you as a person with an axe to grind, not someone who's serious. So if you would like to be taken seriously... And given that you leapt in to accuse me of being part of HUAC, calling me a…

> And given that you leapt in to accuse me of being part of HUAC

Speaking of failing to comprehend the exact words someone wrote. If you want to be taken seriously you should extend the same courtesy to others, even those who disagree with you, full stop. I was disagreeing with you in good faith because I was troubled by the implications of what I thought you were saying, and instead of providing any kind of helpful clarifications you provided personal attacks. Which one of us has the axe to grind?

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not blackmail by either the legal or common-usage definition of blackmail. Even if Uber followed through with such a sleazy plan, it would not be blackmail. For blackmail, a demand must be made, accompanied by a menace. Floating an idea that you plan on digging up dirt? That might have been an incipient but ill-advised plan, it might be idle dreaming, or it might be it might be machiavellian FUD.

> For blackmail, a demand must be made, accompanied by a menace. It may not meet the legal definition -- but there is a clear demand and menace: The demand is that journalists do not write negative stories on Uber. The menace is that Uber will retaliate against any journalists by digging up dirty on them personally and thus hurting either their reputation, careers, or relationships.

Except the "demand" is not a demand directed at anyone, but just the world in general -- since it's after the fact. They would dig up dirt on those who have already written negative articles. No demands are made of them. And no demands are made of any nameable individuals. If you ask "who are they blackmailing", the answer is "a hypothetical."

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#369
"I opt out at airports, I donate to the EFF, I don't use Uber or any other app that targets people's privacy and actively threatens the freedom of the press"

Freedom of the press cannot exist under capitalism, who controls the hiring and firing and owns the organization controls the information.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the third time you've insulted me and you're saying you didn't insult me? You are failing to comprehend the exact words I wrote in a way that I am having a hard time seeing as other than willful. Because of that, I'm taking you as a person with an axe to grind, not someone who's serious. So if you would like to be taken seriously... And given that you leapt in to accuse me of being part of HUAC, calling me a…

> And given that you leapt in to accuse me of being part of HUAC Speaking of failing to comprehend the exact words someone wrote. If you want to be taken seriously you should extend the same courtesy to others, even those who disagree with you, full stop. I was disagreeing with you in good faith because I was troubled by the implications of what I thought you were saying, and instead of providing any kind of helpful…

Ok. Taking you at your word:

I'm sorry if I misunderstood. You drew an analogy to Arthur Miller and communism. I presume the reference was to Miller's famous troubles with HUAC. Not seeing anybody else nearby, I assumed was the witch-hunter in this analogy. I also assumed that you were equating anti-sexist efforts with anti-Communist hysteria, which I think is a) wrong, and b) insulting to the last 150 years of people doing anti-sexist work. But since you insist it was all in good faith, I'll assume that you meant something else entirely.

If in the future you would like people to gently provide helpful clarifications, you could perhaps start by asking reasonably neutral questions. Instead of, say, leaping into contentious threads with conclusions about what people meant and drawing dramatic analogies to the famously wronged. However good your personal intentions were, there are a host of people, especially here on Hacker News, that are less committed to good-faith discussion and are are reflexively opposed to anything that might suggest that there are gender issues in tech.

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