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The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

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Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#361

Post by coldpie »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #302
johngalt wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite interesting thank you for sharing. The idea that constraints can guide creativity. It reminds me of pg's essay on distractions. I've got something of a different view. I was never limited TV or game consumption. My parents had the mindset of 'you'll have to learn to self moderation at some point, better to do it when the stakes are small'. They wanted me to learn to recognize when something I enjoyed was having…

Oh man, if there's one thing I could change in my childhood, it'd be trading half of my gaming time with programming time. I was unfortunately growing up in the golden age of web programming and games and 'chose' the latter. Unfortunately, you can't do much with just 20 years of gaming experience. My parents mostly let me do whatever because I already had a skill then (basic tech support) which we thought would guara…

Consider community or tech college. It's still not cheap, but it's way more affordable than a university or state college. They also tend to be more flexible and understanding since most of their students are part-time. Employers care most about your skills, and a year or two at a community college can give you more non-academic skills than any Computer Science bachelor degree.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#362

Post by pjmlp »

microtonal wrote: post #356
pjmlp wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest of the laptop market is hindered by shipping with Windows only and the difficulty of getting pre and post-sales driver support for the developers and students who require an environment like Linux. The industry has really fucked themselves trying to keep to the model of the glory days. Quite good for those of us that work across multiple OSs. Just install GNU/Linux on VMWare with CPU virtualization enabled…

Just install GNU/Linux on VMWare with CPU virtualization enabled and get two OS in a laptop with the minimum of fuss. And far less battery life. I often run Ubuntu or Windows on my MBA with VMWare to compile some software. It's one of the best methods to soak your battery empty quickly.

Well, I do have a laptop with Windows 7 and a netbook from Asus that was sold with a Linux distribution.

I use GNU/Linux since 1995 and on a laptop still looks like 1995 to me, in terms of graphics card, battery, hibernation and wireless support.

My Asus, which was sold with a supported Linux hardware, does not hibernate.

In terms of battery life I am yet to find a laptop where GNU/Linux lasts longer than Windows.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#363

Post by protomyth »

ssafejava wrote: post #318
protomyth wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider inflation a valid excuse when we continually hear computers get cheaper every year and the Mac mini is selling at the Apple II's old price point. The PC industry abandoned the sub $200 because of Windows licensing, Intel, and Apple taking the old Apple II price as a floor. $570 is a lot father out of reach today for many than $200 in the 80's.

Computers DO get cheaper every year. That Core 2 Duo machine you bought in 2006 might have cost $2000, but those components (if you can even find a place to buy them) would likely cost about $300 today. It's unfair to say that they don't get cheaper considering that a Mac Mini is an entirely different class of machine from an Apple II, in so many ways that it's ridiculous to even try to list them here. As for your st…

No, computers in the same price range are more powerful. The price range for computers under $200 has disappeared. The Mac mini and Apple II inhabit the same price range. You can get more power in the same price range next year but that same power never trickles down to the price ranges that disappeared in the 90's.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#364

Post by protomyth »

marcosdumay wrote: post #288
protomyth wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hobbists have a wider selection of computing tools than ever before I don't think that's quite true. We had Heath kits and a lot more variety of computers from the late 70's to the early 90's. There is no under $200 computer sold at major retailers like there was in the 80's.

Hobbism is not trendy* nowadays. There is nothing aimed at hobbists for sale at any big retailer. It's not a problem with computers. * Well, there is a perfectly rational reason for that, and it is not really a problem for hobbists. But that's the fact.

It's a big problem for the starting hobbyist. A kid will probably receive an iPad rather than something to start them on their way to being a programmer or EE.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#365

Post by ye »

TylerE wrote: post #297
ye wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not true. Modern high end CPUs are multiple times faster than the CPUs from 2008. The architecture changed too, not just the frequency.

I have an i7 920, purchased in December 2008. Please point out which consumer processors (No $3000 xeons) have "multiple times" greater single threaded performance.

i7-4770

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#366

Post by davidsong »

textminer wrote: post #213
simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

This is a common generational worry, right? We learned X a certain way, that pedagogy was necessarily linked to the technology at the time, we worry in retrospect that that specific technology was a necessary condition for ever learning X. I'm only 28, and I do it, too-- e.g., how will kids expand their imagination and learn about the world without only having paper books to immerse themselves in for hours at a time?…

The worry isn't unfounded though and in the case of programming it has actually been measured, the decline in quality of CS students is what inspired the Raspberry Pi project:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/about

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#367

Post by Joeri »

shirro wrote: post #290
zalzane wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because people do not need $2000 Facebook and email machines Devil's advocate: if that is true, then why are macbook pros such a hot sell? I'm typing this here in a college library's lobby. When I look around, I see roughly 3/4 of the laptop-using students are using a macbook pro, with a few macbook airs littered around. If I were to walk around and glance at what people were working on, it'd probably be something l…

The MBP is one of the most functional devices available. The wanky, hipster appeal is way overplayed. Plenty of people use them inspite of their image. Phones satisfy the mobile convergence thing between organisers, phones, cameras and handheld games. Tablets satisfy the "computer as a bicycle" vision of Jobs and bring portable computing to the masses. But neither are really full featured enough for a developer or a…

> The MBP is one of the most functional devices available. The wanky, hipster appeal is way overplayed. Plenty of people use them inspite of their image.

They are fine machines, but if you don't care about subjective things, like how a laptop looks, how much it weighs (an extra pound or 2 never really genuinely matters to a use case), and you only care about getting exactly what you need (not want) for the lowest price, then there is no way you would ever buy a MBP. They are a product that we convince ourselves that we need or deserve because we lust after it, even when a cheaper alternative would do just fine.

I have bought macs for a while, but if I have to be really honest with myself there was always a cheaper alternative that was 'good enough', it's just that I subjectively want apple's products because they are 'nicer'.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#368

Post by Xixi »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #351
Xixi wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace 90% by 100%. The use case of the PC at home is disappearing fast. What can you do on a PC that you cannot do on a tablet? If you really think about it, not much at all. On the iPad Apple's creativity apps [1] go a long way: the basics for the amateur who wants to create content are covered. At home the only thing I actually need a "PC" for is to import CDs, I cannot think of anything else. The rest is a matte…

> What can you do on a PC that you cannot do on a tablet? Easy copy pasting, selecting specific parts of a document... basically anything requiring precision and speed. You can add a keyboard and a mouse to it I suppose, but at that point you may as well have got a laptop.

That's just convenience. Do you really think many people will keep forking $X00 for PCs just for a little bit of convenience needed only once in a while? I respectfully disagree. A couple of anecdotes, for lack of evidence:

My grandfather (89 years old today) switched to the iPad. He was one of the pioneer of computer usage in France (in the steal industry)... at a time when programs were punched on cards! He retired before the mouse/keyboard thingy became popular, and never quite managed to fully grasp it when he got a computer ten years ago. He is not switching back, the iPad is way easier for him.

My parents went full iPad without knowing it: after getting one a year ago they realized that they just aren't using their laptops anymore. The iPad is just much nicer to browse the internet. In short the iPad is better for them 80% of the time, and worse 20% of the time. It can only get better with time, as we get better at making touch interfaces.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything, I just think that's where the market is heading, and it's not coming back to the PC world I (and probably you) grew up in. I for one will keep using my laptop... but I know I'm in the minority.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#369

Post by FedRegister »

ProNihilist wrote: post #345
asveikau wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like it's constrained to the web either. I had a bit of an epiphany about the state of desktop Windows a few years ago when for a hobby project I wrote a UI using only Win32 and C and no external dependencies. Maybe it took longer to write than it should have but I was really shocked at how the thing ran so much faster and smoother than just about any UI I was using on that machine. It dawned on me that all…

This is why I still use Winamp, nothing else comes close to dealing with playlists of thousands of items while also being fairly customisable.

Let us also not forget it's power to literally punish ungulates as well.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#370

Post by pqs »

meerita wrote: post #203

As a guy who has been involved in computers I tend to buy something to last at least 3-4 years. Once I start feeling I'm behind I like to upgrade. I had a 2005 imac before acquire this 2011 iMac and in between I've bought MacBooks and Macbook Air. I'm thinking in getting my new desktop on 2015. Thing is, when I go to my parents house, I see 2003 computers. I think this reality apply's to many families: parents don't…

Yes. I'm living in Spain and my wife and I bought an iPad for her parents. They love it.
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