Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 480 posts

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#361

Post by diydsp »

arcatek wrote: post #63
jdh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

> I would submit that, when you come to view the site under the lens of clicking on a discussion about a fraud, and then go to it to decide if it is a fraud, and you (probably) aren't a likely customer and don't think "damn, that's a hot pair of boots for $40", you end up with a different lens. That's exactly the problem. We're aware that the website is trying to make us suscribe to a VIP program, and so we look for…

Yes, and I have a feeling that in a few hours, when the general internet is made aware of this, they, too, are going to go the website under the lens of >themselvesThisgonebegood.gif

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#362

Post by GrinningFool »

ds_ wrote: post #325
ds_ wrote: post #152

Amazon do basically the same thing with their prime membership, although they do refund if you notice and complain early enough (offer a free month and then start charging unless you opt out, whilst making it far from obvious that you have to do so).

There was already a refund request process in place, preempting the inevitable complaints. They knew they were misleading people so they could make money on the back of those that aren't too attentive to their bank statements. I suppose everyone down-voting me thinks that's just great?

Nope. EVeryone downmodding is well aware that Amazon doesn't hide the subscription - in plain sight or elsewhere. When you sign up for prime, you know that you're signing up for a subscription service. There's no doubt. Things like "try it free for 30 days" in bold letters make it very clear.

I've also never seen a default behavior of enabling prime.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#364

Post by darkarmani »

sgustard wrote: post #22

Their "how it works" page explains this, with far fewer than "2500 words", though it could be clearer. http://www.justfab.com/how-justfab-works.htm They have 2 million likes on Facebook. Were all these users scammed? The "monthly subscription" has recently been a hot e-commerce category. Other sites with a similar model are shoedazzle.com, fabkids.com, musthave.popsugar.com and so on. See: http://www.quora.com/E-Comm…

> Beyond that, you are labeling the business a "scam" because you assert they are hiding the recurring payments from their users. Maybe so, but it would help to have data, rather than "wondering" how many users were unaware of the payments. When they become aware, does the company refund their money?

I think the class action lawsuit might satisfy your curiosity.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#365

Post by theklub »

grey-area wrote: post #100
jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

I just went to the site -- you can do this -- picked a random pair of boots and put them in my shopping cart. I then clicked checkout, and here is what that page looked like: The reason for the dissonance here is that justfab.com works just like a proper shopping site (in fact very like fab.com), except it's also a subscription site which signs you up for subscriptions. This is a dark pattern which uses user expectat…

Their target market is clearly "stupid customers who don't fully read pages and probably don't fully read credit card statements either"

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#366

Post by tripzilch »

jdh wrote: post #42
karterk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading. The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program. The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious. By giving the screen…

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

> Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure.

> Could they pop up three boxes after you click yes and say, "Are you sure?" "Are you really, really sure?" -- (yes, I know I'm being ridiculous) -- but yes, it is a tradeoff.

What? No these are NOT the issues why it's misleading.

You should put the terms of subscription in between the shopping cart and the checkout button, instead of way outside any natural reading order.

The misleading bit is that there is NOTHING suggesting a subscription model, or even mentioning "look to the sidebar for the terms of our subscription" in between the item list and the checkout button.

This means, literally, there is NO REASON for the user to read about the terms of subscription. Because the checkout button, which comes first, leads away from the page. There is no reason to even expect the rest of the page to contain any useful information after the checkout button.

Read that last paragraph again. Because that is not a matter of subjective opinion.

You speak of "plain English", the plain English conversation between the webpage and the user goes like this:

(in plain English reading order)

- webpage: "in your shopping cart are the following items at the following price: ####. Would you like to proceed to checkout? Y/N"

- user: "Yes"

- webpage: "by saying Yes you have agree to subscribe and pay 40 dollars every month"

Does this conversation make sense? No! So tell us again, how does the website make it clear that there's a subscription in "plain English", because I'm not seeing it.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#367

Post by japhyr »

ada1981 wrote: post #324
jdh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

This is a case of "just because you say something enough times, it doesn't make it true". Homie, I'm pretty certain that simply because people don't opt out, it may very well be because they don't realize they are paying for anything.. If the target demo is women who shop alot online, perhaps the charge gets lost in the bill (many people don't review their bills monthly). Is this smart? No. But it doesn't mean it's o…

You can easily read the greyed-out comments by highlighting them with your mouse.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#368

Post by juanbyrge »

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

LOl that screenshot proves beyond a doubt that they are a scam company. What the hell are you guys thinking? Those bastards should be in jail in my country.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#370

Post by kitsune_ »

jdh wrote: post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

What a load of bullshit, this page is clearly designed to trick people into a subscription.
Post reply on HN