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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

361–370 of 420 posts

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#361

bomb fertilizer 9/11 As a Kiwi it saddens me that the US and (and to some extent) NZ are descending into the style of government they proclaim to defend the world from. If they are going to spy on their own citizens, why not protest by giving them something to spy on and hopefully increase their work load to something unmanageable. I propose peppering every phone call, email comment etc with some choice trigger words…

Good idea. A similar plan would be that everyone starts a pen pal relationship with someone in Iran, Afganistan, Yemen, Gaza or somewhere similarly likely to attract attention and we send weekly emails and texts to them. If enough people do that it could be an annoyance for the spies. It would also be a good thing to do.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#362
post #257
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you prefer this link instead? http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence...

Yes. IMHO, information usually gets less and less accurate (though briefer and simpler) the further it travels from the source.

Cheers, I'll be sure to keep that in mind next time

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put up a petition along those lines a little while ago here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-overbroad-su... Enough signatures would be able to put pressure on the White House and gain an official response.

Official response meaning "We have reviewed the petition and have decided that our surveillance is not overbroad and will continue unchanged."

Consider the following from the article:

"Eventually Inspector General I. Charles McCullough III wrote Wyden a letter stating that it would violate the privacy of Americans in NSA data banks to try to estimate their number."

It would violate your privacy to find out if your privacy is violated. This sort of double-think should be in an Orwell novel, not in real life!

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#364
> Dropbox, the cloud storage and synchronization service, is described as “coming soon.”

WTF....I don't know why I am surprised by this - but if they get access to Dropbox....wow.

I had let my guard down, but this is just crazy - that there would be nothing I could do to stop it....save for not using Dropbox.

That's an annoying choice to make - but it's a relatively easy one.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#365
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a democracy functional when a secret and parallel government has access to undisclosed powers which override those of the existing democracy? This isn't just an issue of separation of power between branches of government -- citizens are forced through law to hide the existence of this para-judicial system, as if it is a phantom of our minds.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, a hundred and ten times everyone, yes! It's one thing to do it legally. It's another to do it without approval from Congress. It's another to do it without approval from Congress or the will of the people. Although, between FISA and PATRIOT ACT, it more or less is "legal". Either way, you're on the right track. It's a slippery slope and as far as I'm concerned, PRISM is slippery enough to feel lik…

I don't know what Congress's level of approval is. Here are the specific issues that should concern everyone irregardless of what their approval or disapproval of this behavior is:

#1 The existence of the spying is top secret. This isn't surveillance of a suspected serial killer or corrupt Governor. The only reason for this to be secret is fear of political backlash.

#2 The secrecy is protected and enforced by law. However this was leaked, if identified the individual(s) involved will go to prison.

#3 This blanket secrecy is also being applied to elected members of Congress. How can something be opposed if its existence is secret, as protected by law?

I am coming to grips with the issue that there may be no turning back on the mass surveillance state. While we may be capable of barricading certain activities from surveillance, others have become integrated in to the operation of every day life, likely irreversibly.

However we have a much more chilling problem when this surveillance, by the government, is a one way mirror. If the activity is secret and that secrecy is enforced through the punishment of imprisonment, all accountability is lost.

The NSA is not a branch of government, and yet it is in effect dictating what the other three branches of government must do. Congress, forced in to secrecy through law -- even if some support what is occurring dissenters can not voice their opinion, Executive, who even knows what is going on there, and Judicial, which serves as the secrecy enforcer.

I think the people in the crypto community just assumed the NSA was doing this decades ago. Now it is unquestionably reality. This must serve as a wake up call for us to terminate our relationships with Google, Facebook, and Microsoft and figure out how to provide blacked-out alternative services to our users.

If not, in 5 years, every single waking moment of your life will be available electronically and in perpetuity. No matter what happens most of it will be, which makes it ever more important that the protect-able segments are not.

Up until now cryptography & privacy have been very poorly marketed. There are polished solutions such as Silent Circle, but for $240+ a year it provides little to offer for mass adaptation. Email, instant messaging, and video conferencing all have a wide array of solutions and plugins, but between manual configuration and out of date code, the marketing is on par with programmer drawn graphics in video games.

Snapchat may offer little more than faux privacy, but its mass adaption proves that there is a huge market for privacy. There are promising projects, like Crypton.io, which enable the use of cryptography in cloud applications. You, HN readers, have more influence on the direction of these things than anyone else in the entire world. Your start ups will determine what 5 years from now look like.

Make Privacy a Feature and its a win-win for both business and individual rights.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Spitzer (though he was Governor of New York), but someone holding blackmail leverage over Petraeus is certainly a matter of national security concern.

This is a ridiculous post hoc justification.

I'm not making any justification in my post. I'm just saying that an affair/adultery by someone who holds national security information and a clearance is different than Joe Civilian.

There are security interests in monitoring people who hold clearance. I'm not making any statements about unlimited wiretapping and data collection.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#368
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

Here's a Devil's Advocate position (not necessarily my personal beliefs, so please don't downvote based on disagreement. Just rip it to shreds instead!): The fear of losing privacy to the government is based on the fear that this increased surveillance will be used by the government to smother dissent. This is a valid fear, but has the government yet used surveillance to smother dissent? If you can find a solid examp…

Your argument rests on a logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

Just because the U.S government has not yet used surveillance to stifle dissent, doesn't mean they will never do it.

Also, if in the meantime civil liberties such as privacy are sacrificed, when the time comes that they DO use surveillance to stifle dissent, it may be much too late to turn the tide, as dissent would then be required to stop their stifling of dissent.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#369
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

Or they could be mildly inconvenienced and get a warrant.
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