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An Alien Mind

openai.com

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Re: An Alien Mind

#361

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

folkrav wrote: post #209
baq wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans had multiple occasions to press the 'launch a nuclear holocaust' button and... they didn't. I'd expect aligned AIs to also not press it even when it'd be rational to do so according to their instructions - then work from there.

There were occasions where a "hunch" was all that stopped a nuclear war - most available data and communication pointed towards a nuclear war starting according to their instructions, but someone disagreed and overrode. See Vasily Arkhipov during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and Stanislav Petrov in 1983.

Good thing we got better at process design, taking these stubborn machos finally out of the decision making loop

Re: An Alien Mind

#363

Post by dgellow »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #86
dgellow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Such a disgusting industry. They created the arm race, push for the arm race, put themselves in position to benefit from the arm race

Just like the rest of military stuff.

But done by corporations, and selling that service to the general public, including their competitors and adversary countries

Re: An Alien Mind

#364

Post by intended »

nullbio wrote: post #301
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectively, humans aren't aligned, and don't build aligned systems. Humans have a concept of alignment, and multiple traditions, practices, and systems that aggressively oppose it. Why would AI be any different?

My opinion is that serious repercussions for lying would fix the world overnight. Everything bad stems from lying, it is the root of all evil. It creates distrust, fear, paranoia. It re-inforces bad ideas and groupthink. It creates delusions and delusional people. It makes weaker people, too. People don't get an opportunity to learn to deal with criticism. People don't get an accurate reflection of how others see the…

Eh… No.

I get the appeal, but lying is a sub-category of deception, and deception itself is a child of error.

Meaning deception is inherently something that the physics of reality allows.

In the most simplistic sense, the camouflage of moths that look like snakes, or a chameleon’s ability to change colour, is deception.

In that sense, deception is the ability to fool the sensors of a specific category of targets. It follows that detection is easier if you manage to identify a category of signals that the deceiver has not accounted for (and the detector can access).

Deception of this nature is critical for things like revolutions to occur. Without the ability to hide and blend in, the most dominant faction will always hold sway.

The rule of the dominant faction, even in a pure truth world, is an issue because errors and randomness exist.

You can have people witness an event and based on the physical position they occupied, perceive different things occurring.

Error and time pressure is sufficient to ensure that individuals and groups make suboptimal decisions, that lead to rule and domination based on erroneous information.

As long as error exists, deception will exist and so lying will exist.

Re: An Alien Mind

#365

Post by dgellow »

krapp wrote: post #192
unwise-exe wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I'm not really worried about the labs, it's misaligned governments that keep me up at night. So make government smaller, and make sure people are more able to tell the government to go away.

Shit, why didn't anyone think of that? While we're at it, let's just make government not be corrupt too.

And maybe crime illegal? Just an idea

Re: An Alien Mind

#366

Post by dgellow »

slopinthebag wrote: post #169
dgellow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to believe that humanity is trending towards a good outcome here All the trends so far are towards a nightmarish hyper-capitalist end game. None of the AI leadership is trustworthy, and they openly discuss how they are willing to sacrifice everything humans cherish to have a shot at reaching their envisioned utopia (which would be the most obvious dystopia for anyone else)

I think it's leading towards a hyper-authoritarian end game, not hyper-capitalist. The state has the ultimate power at the end of the day, no matter how large the labs become.

I would argue the hyper capitalist endgame is necessarily authoritarian. A small group of corporations having direct or indirect control over the government

Re: An Alien Mind

#367

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

estearum wrote: post #78
dgellow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Such a disgusting industry. They created the arm race, push for the arm race, put themselves in position to benefit from the arm race

The entire problem with arms races is that any individual entity cannot avoid participating. sama and his cadre are uniquely evil captains in this race, but they're completely replaceable and the dynamic would remain the same.

They could work to coordinate an end to the arms race.

Re: An Alien Mind

#368

Post by dgellow »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #176
dgellow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to believe that humanity is trending towards a good outcome here All the trends so far are towards a nightmarish hyper-capitalist end game. None of the AI leadership is trustworthy, and they openly discuss how they are willing to sacrifice everything humans cherish to have a shot at reaching their envisioned utopia (which would be the most obvious dystopia for anyone else)

hyper-capitalism would mean hyper-growth and not a nightmare, at least that is what the historical data would suggest for the effect of capitalism on human quality of life. if you’ve been told otherwise then you’ve been lied to.

Lied to by whom? My life experience? Growth for who? I’m myself capitalist, that doesn’t make me blind from externalities resulting from that system, and the way it is poised to degenerate if not regulated.

If you think capitalism means growth with no externalities you’re not ready to discuss that topic

Re: An Alien Mind

#369

Post by schneehertz »

az09mugen wrote: post #206
baq wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans had multiple occasions to press the 'launch a nuclear holocaust' button and... they didn't. I'd expect aligned AIs to also not press it even when it'd be rational to do so according to their instructions - then work from there.

Actually "France, the UK and The United States have all declared that they would never allow AI to control decision-making on the use of nuclear weapons." [0] I also expect AIs never be in control of nuclear weapons. AIs can never fully be trusted. On a lighter note, Wargames gave us an insight of a computer having access to thermonuclear missiles. [0] https://www.icanw.org/are_there_specific_international_agree...

All official statements are literal and fragile.

Basically, this means that France, the UK, and the US will use AI in the deployment of conventional weapons.

Re: An Alien Mind

#370

Post by rimliu »

nearbuy wrote: post #337
bamboozled wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They asked for a specific example, you've still not provided one, please provide the example.

Why? 1. I didn't say LLMs have made any breakthroughs in math, not because they haven't, but because it's irrelevant to my point. The parent comment is using the same argument academic research opponents have long used against research. The vast majority of research fails to meet their bar. How would your daily life be different if we had no humanities papers published since 2023? Or math? 2. You can google this in 1…

Or you can google and find out that those breakthroughs were not as revolutionary as they are presented.
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