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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#361

Post by nostrademons »

fidotron wrote: post #266
tw04 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’ve said from the beginning, just ask yourself: what would Putin want? Every baffling, self destructive move Trump makes, basically always aligns to a long stated goal of Russia.

Putin wanted Trump to decapitate the Iranian regime? Let's be serious, that has nothing to do with the Canadian situation, which has more than enough going on without needing to imagine things. Edit to add: the extent to which many of you will apparently blame anything and everything on Putin is extraordinary. Just because the sun shines on Putin as well does not mean he made it do so.

Biden gets Russia and Ukraine stuck in a quagmire in Ukraine, so Putin retaliates by getting the U.S. and Iran stuck in a quagmire in the Middle East. Wars are won by the countries that stay out of them. The Russia-Afghanistan war played a very significant role in the downfall of the Soviet Union.

The irony is that China is the big winner from all of this, simply by staying above the fray and making trade deals with all the countries that more bellicose superpowers start fighting. When your adversary is making a mistake, let him.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#362

Post by TheSkyHasEyes »

fidotron wrote: post #104

This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Being in Canada though this does look v. short sighted of the US. All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries, particularly China, which at least superficially these negotiations were meant to prevent.

> All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries

The world is watching this story just like the world watched Davos.

Last night will encourage further decoupling of the US for nations other than Canada.

idk if Trump 2028 will happen or not. I will say with conviction no matter who is in office by then will not rebuild trust around the world in their tenure. Too much damage is done to the US's reputation.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#364

Post by csomar »

theoreticalmal wrote: post #325
robmccoll wrote: post #122

Huh 30% of our lumber just got 50% more expensive. Good thing we don't have shortages of affordable housing that need new construction to solve. Brilliant stuff Donald. Truly some 4D chess moves.

Idk man I just took a trip to Forks, WA and the amount of lumber they had and were processing up there was insane

Yes, everyone know a modern economy statistics work by what you can see with your naked eyes out there on the streets.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#365

Post by zeagle »

The average American suffers being hated for this government and I say this currently sitting in a town filled with fly in rich American tourists to keep it alive. IMO the only retaliatory pain point for Americans to start to care will be taxing discounted oil, electricity, fertilizer, and transits of everything to Alaska. But they’ll just blame rather than support Canada. I don’t like Doug Ford or his policies but hopefully he brings up the electricity thing again as leverage because it won’t happen in the other sectors given AB separatism and SK being, well, SK.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#366

Post by steveBK123 »

sghiassy wrote: post #163
robmccoll wrote: post #122

Huh 30% of our lumber just got 50% more expensive. Good thing we don't have shortages of affordable housing that need new construction to solve. Brilliant stuff Donald. Truly some 4D chess moves.

Art of the Deal

His negotiating methods, if one can call them that, are like "single use weapons" that are relationship burning rather than building. If you are doing 100s of one-off deals with counterparties you will never talk to again, and who don't know each other.. it might actually work.

But you burn the ability to make more deals with the same counterparty again.

If you played this game with your neighbor over a fenceline or tree limb dangerously overhanging into your yard.. you would save a few bucks once, and have an antagonistic relationship for the next 10-20 years of living next to them. Good luck getting the benefit of the doubt next time.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#367

Post by morkalork »

sanderjd wrote: post #305
iNerdier wrote: post #242

Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, it’s just making things for Canadians more expensive with an adversary that’s larger and can sustain them longer (although how long remains to be seen with guilt yields rising.) If they really want to hurt them start making it legal to circumvent DRM on American products and allow build meaningful replacements.

We, in the US, might be able to sustain this longer economically, but Canadians can sustain this longer politically.

Well it's 73 days till the midterm elections so we'll see what happens. Signing a bad deal when the political landscape could dramatically change in a few weeks never made sense.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#368

Post by notahacker »

estearum wrote: post #334
Ziomislaw wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call it good relationship, US just stopped pretending, that is all. They were always a global threat. I am happy US delusions finally forced everyone to stop pretending too, because the cost of it got too large. Splendid.

Being a global threat but "pretending" so well to be a good faith actor that people treat you and engage with you as a good faith actor, is literally the same as just being a good faith actor. The US was a good faith actor, especially relative to its power. Now it is not. It is not good for the world's most powerful military and economy to stop "pretending" to be a good faith actor, and it is not something you should…

Above all the US was a predictable actor. Sure, its terms of trade were designed to favour US companies and maybe it wasn't fair that you had to be an exceptional diplomat to stay on amicable terms with them if you were at least notionally a radical socialist whilst the brutal dictatorship next door got a free pass on its excesses because it had defeated the radical socialists or was open to US investment and fully committed to keeping the oil flowing, but you knew what they wanted from you.

I mean, in a way Trump's tendency to back out of everything, good or bad and base his entire foreign policy relationship with your country based on who he last spoke to is predictable, but predictable in a way the only winning move with US relationships is not to play

I'll throw in China, which might want whats best for Chinese influence even more than it wants to sell you cheap consumer goods, but it's also very, very predictable in what it wants from any sort of international agreement with you and these days has an abundance of capital and the ability to sell you most things the US can sell you for less...

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#369

Post by beej71 »

khriss wrote: post #276

The craziest thing is, that in spite of the obvious, balatant corruption and supreme incompetence of the US govt, Trump still has around 35% approval rating. That means the hardcore MAGA base is a third of the US population. I genuinely don't know how to reconcile that with the long term future of the United States.

As a constitutionalist American, I really wish I had an answer for you. The best I have is that two-thirds of the country thinks he's off-base. But I can only agree that's an alarming figure.

It seems like a lot of the governmental structure of this country is predicated on the idea that the People will not elect someone who puts their own interests over those of the nation. And when we do, the whole thing starts to unravel.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#370

Post by AlexandrB »

fidotron wrote: post #208
pluc wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve our (yours and ours) inferior car industry. It's basically what Canada is doing to the US with dairy, except with Chinese cars.

What is going to happen is this lack of deal will accelerate the (inevitable) decline of the Canadian car industry, which will reduce objections to the Chinese imports leading to those quotas changing in an ever accelerating feedback loop. From the US strategic perspective this is moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Canada having closer trade ties with China is also a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Canada.
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