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And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

shkspr.mobi

361–370 of 447 posts

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#361
post #324
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can set your phone to filter these out, but then you'll also miss the notification about North Korea commencing artillery bombardment. Considering most of SK's population is in Seoul, and Seoul is within range of NK artillery, wouldn't most people be aware before the notification came anyways?

"Aware" is definitely one choice of word. The expectation in Seoul is that if the day ever does come, you will be dead before you make it out of the office building you work in. They run evacuation drills anyway, because of course they do.

But artillery barrages don't delivery 100% of their payload in the first round. If your building is hit with the first round, yes you'll be dead. But there will be a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. round coming and many people could get to better, more survivable locations, before those impacted. In the book "With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa" the author talks about being under artillery fire in an open area.

>"To be shelled by mass artillery and mortars is absolutely terrifying, but to be shelled in the open is terror compounded beyond the belief of anyone who hasn't experienced it."

It is estimated that Seoul would have 2-4 minutes of warning of an NK barrage due to the artillery shell flight time. Having 2 to 4 minutes to get anywhere other than an open area is valuable.

A NK artillery barrage on Seoul would be horrific and devastating but it wouldn't kill everyone.

> One early examination of the problem, by Bruce Bennett of the RAND Corporation, finds that circa 1995 the KPA may have been capable of firing as many as 200,000 long-range rounds into South Korea on the first day of a conflict—and that even a short 3-to-5-minute artillery barrage into the Seoul metro area could cause as many as 7,500 civilian casualties—with the total fatalities rising much higher if North Korea continued the attack. An analysis from 2012 by Roger Cavazos finds that a North Korean artillery attack on Seoul could produce around 30,000 fatalities. And a recent study by researchers at RAND finds that an hour-long artillery barrage on Seoul would produce between 87,600 and 130,000 casualties, of which between 6,620 and 10,680 would be fatalities—with many more fatalities to come if the artillery bombardment continued. [0]

[0] https://tnsr.org/2025/06/lost-seoul-assessing-pyongyangs-oth...

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#362

Last week I had boarded a flight at LHR and the crew were just starting their safety briefing when everyone's phones went off with that wildfires 'emergency' alert message. I was unimpressed with the message, along with the (non-UK) crew.

My completely unsubstantiated impression is that it was the govt putting out a feeler on whether it should use the alert system more frequently (and afaik it was relatively unpopular)

I'd have to agree, given the past alerts (https://www.gov.uk/alerts/past-alerts) seem to be reasonable and localised.

Hopefully they take heed.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ideal number of jails and homeless people is zero. Obviously you will not reach that literally. That's why it is an ideal number, not a real number. It is still a good and worthy goal. Finnland for example has nearly eradicated homelessness. It is not literally zero but 0.08% which is pretty good. You can also reduce the crime rate dramatically by better social security, education, easier access to mental health…

>Finnland for example has nearly eradicated homelessness. It is not literally zero but 0.08% which is pretty good. If we had Finland's winters, I think we could eradicate homelessness by January.

Canada is a very visible counterexample to this glib statement.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like people being arrested for online statements in the UK, while violent crime is swept under the rug or otherwise downplayed.

Which statements did people get arrested for?

A quick search led me to this, and lots like it https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/03/the-victims-of-b...

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#365
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I like to treat myself terrible and hurt myself everyday? It's okay for me to treat others that way? Just because something has a long history (secular or otherwise) doesn't give it any merit by itself. If we need some standard to judge against what is morally acceptable in the case I presented (no this doesn't apply if you like to hurt yourself and others) then you are back to defining a standard which canno…

> What if [..] treat myself [vs] treat others? There's an obvious asymmetry in your rephrasing. The parents quote says "do unto others as they do unto you", not as you do to yourself. If you treat yourself terrible and hurt yourself, is it okay for others to hurt you too?

By logic, yes, if the hypothetical I likes getting hurt, they can also have a tendency to like getting hurt by others surely no? The problem is assuming these types of thinking doesn't exist and we only need to know the good to follow it and hence treating morality and values as a thing that stays beyond humanity itself in the form of eternal truths like the golden rule. But we don't think of morals on an intellectual plane purely. We think it is bad to hurt others because we want a good world where nobody is hurt, but that in itself is a stance where we assume everyone wants the same thing and if they don't, they just lack the reason and rationality to understand the obviously good values. But the mistake is assuming only reason rules how we see and execute morals in actual life.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#366
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I like to treat myself terrible and hurt myself everyday? It's okay for me to treat others that way? Just because something has a long history (secular or otherwise) doesn't give it any merit by itself. If we need some standard to judge against what is morally acceptable in the case I presented (no this doesn't apply if you like to hurt yourself and others) then you are back to defining a standard which canno…

> What if I like to treat myself terrible and hurt myself everyday? It’s okay for me to treat others that way? No, that’s not what the Golden Rule said. It says to treat people the way you want other people to treat you. How you treat yourself is your own business. There’s also a certain amount of making reasonable assumptions here. Obviously the intent is to get people to treat each other fair & well, not to set a l…

Yes, reasonable assumptions! But according to whom? The golden rule can be reasonable to you but not to me. But does that make me bad and you good? Not really. It just means we disagree on what it means to be a moral person.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your "reasonable assumptions" has bad morals can be twisted to mean any moral values based on what you mean by reasonable. For example, the church can say it is reasonable assumptions to burn witches and then twist reason itself to make it morally good as well. In that case how can we trust this system itself? If the answer is by using your own eyes and thinking for yourself, then why do we need to follow a specific fixed rule?

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia article the previous commenter linked doesn't mention this, and I've looked at a few sources linked from it and they don't mention it either. They mention that previous Therac machines had "hardware interlocks" to prevent this sort of issue - maybe those are the safety fuses you're both talking about? - but it says they were never included in Therac-25 in the first place, because the software was assume…

It has been a few years since I last read the report. Hardware interlocks is likely what I remembered as fuses.

You were right that fuses were involved, just on a different model. See my edited comment.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely unrelated to the actual content of your post, but: > megameter Completely valid SI way to represent distance, but I have never seen anyone use this in my entire life! Out of curiosity, do you live in some location or work in some industry where this is used? If so, where?

I did some intercontinental work and found it easier to say (mostly in my own head) that I was “eleven megameters” from home, rather than “seven thousand miles”. I blame my nerdiness and willingness to be slightly weird. But I do enjoy the unit very much now and I think its time might be coming!

I like it. Might start using it myself!

I use mm, cm, m, km every day, so why not Mm! Definitely an appropriate unit for international-scale measurement, so it's weird we default to just using thousands of kilometres now that I'm thinking about it.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US for most of its history. Nothing is ideal. The more free market a country is, the more prosperous it is.

> Nothing is ideal Right, which is why touting oversimplified economic models is likely to be contentious ;) Speaking of which: > The more free market a country is, the more prosperous it is. When do you think the US was at its most prosperous? Most would say somewhere in the mid 20th century, which was hardly the least regulated time in its history…

The highest GDP growth was in 1942, due to war production. But it required going into massive debt, and massive mobilization of adults into the factories, so I don't think that counts.

GDP growth in the 1800s is a rather dodgy time of statistics, as economic statistics were not collected then.

From 1800 to the Civil War, the US economy began to be industrialized. The Northern states industrialized, while the Southern economy stagnated.

The 1870s and 1880s are considered a very prosperous time. It was a time when industry really got in gear and was applied broadly.

I don't have hard facts, but prosperity in my life seems to have been driven by the computer industry, a pretty much completely unregulated sector of the economy.

Re: And then the men with guns tell you to do it anyway

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a building that decided it was a good safety practice to test the fire alarms every 3 months.

My job does it weekly. It's a massive factory too, so the alarms are absolutely ear-splitting. They make a big deal out of safety, and wearing ear protection out on the production floor when I go out there, and all this other stuff, yet on a weekly basis they're absolutely shattering my ear drums. Love it.

We need louder sirens to counteract the hearing damage caused by our old sirens.
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