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France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

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Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#361

Post by vntok »

wpietri wrote: post #334
epolanski wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't charge nobody's card because in order to do so you'd first need to sign a verbal contract.

Again, please explain the details of what you're thinking. If I get a card number, type it into my POS system, collect money, and send you a product, who's going to stop me?

Wait, am I getting it right you're talking about collecting a prospective customer's card number and CVC over the phone, and then typing it yourself in a third party system?

Then it's trivial to settle: that's the big bad PCI DSS violation mouthful, so two to three things will happen. One, the customer's bank will reimburse them as soon as they complain that they have not authorized the fraudulent transaction that appears on their account. Product being sent, received, sent back, etc has no bearing on this. Two, you will be audited, fined $xx,xxx monthly and/or perhaps even get banned from the PSP layer. Again, sending real products has no bearing in this. Three, well the customer's own bank will be in touch pretty soon with yours to "settle things", as banks don't particularly like to advance reimbursements to their clients for fraudulent transactions. Hope you weren't using your own bank as a PSP as they kept receipts of everything you were doing (they just weren't looking until now).

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#362

Post by account42 »

paulluuk wrote: post #216
timoth3y wrote: post #198

This is a great move by France, but most of the rest of the world does not suffer from the telemarketing scam hell that Americans do. I am a US citizen living overseas. I have a US cell number that is only used for 2FA for US financial institutions. No one else has that number. I get more scam calls every day on that number than I do in a year on my local number. It's crazy. Most of the world has solved the worst of…

> Most of the world has solved the worst of the problem by simply not allowing caller-ID spoofing and by blocking bad actors I live in the Netherlands, and I get several spoofed crypto-scam calls every day. I have also stopped picking up the phone for numbers I don't recognize. My own telephone number has been used to call others for a while, so I would get tons of "sorry I was busy, what did you call about?" return…

I'm curious, is that a landline or a mobile number?

Because I have two mobile numbers the country to the right of you and have gotten perhaps one marketing/scam call in the last decade. And those numbers have been used for 2FA for plenty of websites so surely must have leaked by now.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#363

Post by deaton »

Telaneo wrote: post #89
mcv wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the French regulator mandated the telcos to implement a complete block of spoofed phone numbers That is really great. I've had a lot of trouble with calls from spoofed numbers a couple of years ago (it ended when I installed a scam blacker on my phone), and when I looked into it at that time, my impression was that phone companies couldn't block spoofed numbers. On the other hand, if the scam blocking app can block…

The problem with spoofing is that there are legitimate uses of it. It's probably solvable by only allowing spoofing of numbers you actually own (so if a hospital has 20 phone lines, they can spoof their publicly posted phone number, but random spammers can't spoof your neighbour's phone number). The fact that the phone companies haven't done this or much else yet goes to show how little they care.

All of the problems are solvable though, and if they weren't then it would still be better to make a hospital just use a few different numbers rather than allowing a billion dollar scam industry to operate unchecked.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#364

Post by metabagel »

brabel wrote: post #348
embedding-shape wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

Thanks for the information, I live in Sweden and get calls at least once a week, but it's annoying enough. I visited family in Brazil and was shocked about how people there seem to get unsolicited marketing calls every hour or so!! My mom was forced to change her number to stop them as she nearly got scammed of several thousand dollars - sometimes the scams are extremely convincing - in this case they knew she was at…

Once a week, LOL. I get 3-6 calls per day (USA).

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#365

Post by dolmen »

embedding-shape wrote: post #166
Kon5ole wrote: post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

We had this for years in France. But this is bypassed.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#366

Post by wpietri »

vntok wrote: post #361
wpietri wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, please explain the details of what you're thinking. If I get a card number, type it into my POS system, collect money, and send you a product, who's going to stop me?

Wait, am I getting it right you're talking about collecting a prospective customer's card number and CVC over the phone, and then typing it yourself in a third party system? Then it's trivial to settle: that's the big bad PCI DSS violation mouthful, so two to three things will happen. One, the customer's bank will reimburse them as soon as they complain that they have not authorized the fraudulent transaction that ap…

We're not talking about fraud, we're talking about telemarketing.

The case you describe is correct for fraud, but doesn't need any new law making "void and nulls contracts made by phone". That being epolanski's proposed fix for telemarketing.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#367

Post by marcosdumay »

dakial1 wrote: post #219

In Brazil no one uses common phone lines anymore because, in part, of the telemarketers and scams calls. Most people I know enable “silence unknown callers” and use almost exclusively Whatsapp for communication. The government tried to control this with an official (no call list) that is usually ignored by companies who use third parties and disposable mobile numbers to do their dirty work. Telcos have the power to c…

ANATEL says we will have authenticated numbers by 2028. After that, it's a matter of pressuring the government to punish the people doing the undesired calls.

The second implementation (AFAIK, we are in the 3rd now) of that no-call list was quite successful in pressuring companies. It can be done.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#369

Post by maximilianburke »

Kon5ole wrote: post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

If only fucking Zoominfo would integrate with these whitelists.

Canada has a national do-not-call list and that hasn't stopped me from getting hit multiple times a week by startup sales reps.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#370

Post by faeyanpiraat »

brushfoot wrote: post #265

"Cold calls annoy me" is one angle, and from that perspective, sure. But "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is another angle. Because giant corporations may not need to make cold calls. It's the small bootstrapped startup that does. Hopefully lawmakers will include provisions for small businesses making well-researched calls. Because otherwise, this is just one more way of pulling up the ladder.

Yeah this is something which got on my radar as a potential way to get web development clients, like just call companies with kind of bad websites and see if they need new ones?

This gotta be an outdated way to get business, but regardless of whether this would work on a small scale (havent tried yet) would this be considered spam aswell?

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