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HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

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Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#361

Post by DiscourseFan »

jerf wrote: post #290
dathinab wrote: post #247

And this + the tendency for AI to "prefer" AI produced code + some other AI biased is why *this is most likely highly illegal to use in the EU due to violating anti discrimination laws in multiple ways. To be clear: - randomly filtering "too many" resumes is pretty much allowed (I think) - but must be actual random independent of the resume (and can be in multiple layers, i.e. random filter > pre-select > random filt…

Everything is correlated to everything [1]. Which means there's a good chance this is somehow correlated in one way or another to race/gender/other protected classes in the US, just by the math of everything being correlated to everything. Which means this is one good lawsuit away from being illegal in the US as well. It doesn't even necessarily have to "win", just do well enough in court to scare away anyone else fr…

I wouldn't doubt that lawsuits for employment discrimination for any company (and I suppose it was most of them) that used LLMs in hiring processes will become a very lucrative business. They are all open to civil suits at this point.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#362

Post by robertlagrant »

fernandopj wrote: post #308
robertlagrant wrote: post #188

I tried this with my CV, and it somehow scored me bonus points for GSoC! BONUS POINTS: 5.0 ------------------------------ Google Summer of Code (GSoC) participation: +5 Even though I've never done this, and don't claim to have done it in my CV.

Happened to me as well. It is a known hallucination https://github.com/interviewstreet/hiring-agent/issues/240

Thanks - interesting. Very odd, though.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#363

Post by AnimalMuppet »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #361
jerf wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is correlated to everything [1]. Which means there's a good chance this is somehow correlated in one way or another to race/gender/other protected classes in the US, just by the math of everything being correlated to everything. Which means this is one good lawsuit away from being illegal in the US as well. It doesn't even necessarily have to "win", just do well enough in court to scare away anyone else fr…

I wouldn't doubt that lawsuits for employment discrimination for any company (and I suppose it was most of them) that used LLMs in hiring processes will become a very lucrative business. They are all open to civil suits at this point.

And, if there aren't enough lawyers to do all that work, you could use AI to file the suits.

I'll let you decide whether that's a dream or a nightmare...

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#364

Post by programjames »

orbital-decay wrote: post #213

This word (determinism) has a magical effect of warping any online posts it touches. Once you hear it you can almost guarantee it's going to be misguided. At least this time it's actual determinism (same input = same output), not arbitrary unrelated things. Determinism matters for reproducibility, but do you really want these outputs to be reproducible in this particular case? Making LLM outputs deterministic is rela…

Nondeterminism is also a feature, not a bug. If you don't want people to optimize against your filtering process, you have to make it somewhat nondeterministic. For example, better candidates are exponentially more likely to pass the filter, instead of a hard cut-off at the top-100. Then it becomes no longer worthwhile to Goodhart the filtering process, because it barely increases your chances and there are so many more places you can use your time better.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#365

Post by margalabargala »

dvt wrote: post #6

An alarming number of people don't understand that LLMs work via purely stochastic processes, so I'm happy to see in-depth pieces like this. I'm looking for a job and maybe this is why it's so hard to get a callback these days: resumes are just dumped in some LLM black hole and no one really knows how it works. The author says: > temperature 0.1 — low, supposedly nudging the model toward deterministic outputs This is…

> I'm happy to see in-depth pieces like this

It's somewhat ironic that this "in depth" piece was written by an LLM as well.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#366

Post by simiones »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #289
simiones wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In almost all forms of math, the value n/0 is undefined. It's definitely not infinity, for two reasons - depending on the value of n, it can be negative; and neither info nor -inf are numbers, so they can't be the result of an equation (unless you look at transfinite equations). What you can do in math is talk about the limit of a series of fractions as the denominator approaches 0, and that's where you get some rela…

I explicitly didn't say "infinity or negative infinity" because I didn't think that level of pedantry would be needed here on HN. I guess I was wrong.

That's not the problem, and this is not just pedantry. It's just not correct to say that n/0 = inf, nor even to say that positive_n / 0 = inf, in any normal math context.

For example, if you accepted that n/0 = inf just like n/1 = n, then you'd conclude that n/0 + 3 = inf + 3 = inf, so n/0 + 3 = n/0, so 3 = 0. Or you'd want to do weird things like asking what is sin(inf).

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#367

Post by jvanderbot »

> I’d take the engineer with 30 years of experience who built S3 over someone with two internships and an open source project — but this tool wouldn’t.

Is it possible the senior/principle jobs are not being applied to at a rate that LLM tools like this are required? Maybe star devs are getting recruiter referrals and this kind of tool is mostly used for filtering new grads?

Either way, perfectly dystopian.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#369

Post by pmarreck »

miki123211 wrote: post #64
dvt wrote: post #6

An alarming number of people don't understand that LLMs work via purely stochastic processes, so I'm happy to see in-depth pieces like this. I'm looking for a job and maybe this is why it's so hard to get a callback these days: resumes are just dumped in some LLM black hole and no one really knows how it works. The author says: > temperature 0.1 — low, supposedly nudging the model toward deterministic outputs This is…

In theory, temperature 0 does make the LLM deterministic. Well, in theory theory, temperature 0 doesn't really exist. Mathematically, as lim temperature->0, the distribution gets spikier and spikier, the most likely sample goes to almost-but-not-quite infinity and the rest go to almost-but-not-quite 0. In practice, temperature=0 is literally a separate branch of an if statement that just picks the most common sample…

It is not deterministic because the order of computations in a typical multithreaded system is not deterministic and also because when combined with the devil that is IEEE754, it gets even less deterministic.

Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88

#370

Post by thewebguyd »

CM30 wrote: post #154

I think what's more worrying to me (if other systems work like this ATS) is that it seems to judge based on a bunch of factors that will probably disqualify a ton of decent to good participants. For example, 65 points are given for a mix of personal projects and open source contributions. Which is great if your one and only interest is in tech, and you don't have a family, dependents or a second/third job. If you hav…

Yeah, the over valuing personal/open source projects is worrying and kind of sucks. I can use myself as an example, I don't do personal projects really, outside of work. My only actual programming work experience is during work hours for my employer. My hobbies are tech-adjacent (3D printing, some hardware/arduino stuff, photography) but they aren't "make a bunch of projects and put them on github" type hobbies. I'm certainly not going to make some BS fake CRUD or SaaS apps just to show off for potential employers, what a waste of time.

I, intentionally, have zero online presence in that regard. You won't find any public repos on my github, I don't blog, etc. Its even infected the ops/syadmin side of the field (where I work), and that's somehow even worse. Like of course I don't have a bunch of environment specific scripts on my GH, why would I? It's irrelevant to anyone that doesn't work in my department at my current employer.

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