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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#361

Post by mathgeek »

ghaff wrote: post #330
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communities passed and paid bonds to have water hookusp. Built infrastructure. They should have a say in who gets access and why. There are plenty of places datacenters could build without hassle, but they want access to readymade infra, and that comes with a reasonable tradeoff.

There are also traffic issues--likely less of an issue with datacenters or solar farms. But things like housing that put pressures on local schools are certainly issues--though again not really with datacenters which are more about power and water infrastructure.

Power and water infrastructure being strained can raise utility prices and require new infrastructure, which affect schools and tax rates by extension. It can also lead to new build stoppages until infrastructure is built, which affects hone prices and taxes. There are many knock-on effects.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#362

Post by Nervhq »

defrost wrote: post #291
jnwatson wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A meeting to get a lamp post change is exactly how progress stops. It is why we can't build anything in US and it costs a billion dollars per mile of high speed rail.

A data centre isn't a lamp post.

[dead]

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#363

Post by hdgvhicv »

esikich wrote: post #357
hdgvhicv wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So maybe 50kW for 10 hours a day? Double it and call it 1Mwh a day. A 1GW DC would have to employ 75,000 people if that’s an acceptable ratio.

So what's the ratio for malls? Or strip malls? Or metal refineries? Or auto plants? Or giant office buildings?

You’re the one that came up with a tanning salon being a high ratio of resource usage to local utility.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#364

Post by hdgvhicv »

esikich wrote: post #348
yusefnapora wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably Suzie also serves the people in her community who want tanned skin but don't like the sun. A data center offers nothing of value to the community it's embedded in - neither jobs nor any useful product or service. All the benefits accrue to the owners, and the very real costs are paid by the people breathing in the fumes from the gas turbines, or paying an extra hundred bucks a month for power. If you don't…

A data center offers software development/infrastructure where people know it or not. Just because they aren't the first order users doesn't mean it's not beneficial. How is a machine shop beneficial to 65 year old Janet?

Machine shop employs more local people per unit of resource. Far more.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#366

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

jnwatson wrote: post #281
thewillowcat wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These companies aren't coming in, buying property at market rates, and developing it with existing infrastructure under current zoning laws. They usually want tax breaks, major infrastructure changes, and other accommodations and guarantees. It's completely reasonable for people to want a dialog with their representatives before those kinds of arrangements are made with a company on their behalf. And it's entirely re…

A meeting to get a lamp post change is exactly how progress stops. It is why we can't build anything in US and it costs a billion dollars per mile of high speed rail.

If it's a brand new type of lamp post that's never been built in that area before and is likely to cause significant problems to the inhabitants (e.g. power blackouts) then that kind of progress should be stopped or at least discussed in an open fashion and not hidden behind NDAs.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#367

Post by dwb »

esikich wrote: post #358
dwb wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using the same logic as those who kept the franchise restricted to the property-owning class. Parent is rightly mocking you for it.

Did you vote for the new McDonalds that got built? The new strip mall? The new apartment complex? The new water treatment plant that makes noise and stinks? The new metal shop? The new gas station? Let's start voting on everything and see how that goes. But we obviously don't because that's fucking stupid.

I don’t think dismissing direct democracy as “fucking stupid” is the kind of constructive commentary this site is after. It’s a complex issue and I wouldn’t advocate for it claiming it would fix everything, but in the representative democracy that we (supposedly) have, and the representatives that we tend to get, often cowed or corrupted by huge corporate interests, is it surprising that people want to take some influence back into their own hands? I’m not ever going to be against that kind of democracy.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#368

Post by pibaker »

ozim wrote: post #227
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I was living in a touristic area. Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money. Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if…

> Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away.

This is also true for data centers. They tell you there will be new jobs, but what they don't tell you is the people working there will be employed by an established contractor and driving in from the nearest metro area, not the locals.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#369

Post by oblio »

miiiiiike wrote: post #274
oblio wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most other things they could build there could create a lot more local jobs.

And create a lot more pollution while generating much, much less in property tax revenue.

You mean the other businesses (not the DCs) generate more pollution and don't bring in less property tax revenue?

Pollution, ok, regular industry generates more. But property tax revenue? Why would DCs provide more property tax revenue?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#370

Post by ghaff »

pibaker wrote: post #368
ozim wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was living in a touristic area. Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money. Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if…

> Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away. This is also true for data centers. They tell you there will be new jobs, but what they don't tell you is the people working there will be employed by an established contractor and driving in from the nearest metro area, not the locals.

And, in fact, after the initial construction datacenters employ very few people working on the premises.
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