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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#361

Post by throw310822 »

jfengel wrote: post #353
Terr_ wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> liberal democracy With a big honking caveat-asterisk that it only applies if you're on the right side of the apartheid.

Well, on the right side of the border. Everybody within the actual borders can vote, regardless of race, religion, etc. In a lot of ways it's a more democratic system than the US has, with multiple functioning parties. The "apartheid" part is the people in the West Bank and Gaza, who are not Israeli but also not their own country.

> Everybody within the actual borders can vote

Unless you're a Palestinian in illegally annexed Jerusalem... Then you don't have citizenship and have to keep proving that you live and work in Jerusalem to avoid losing the residency rights.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#362

Post by tyre »

YZF wrote: post #292
YZF wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right on the regime change being fantasy but those things are not predictable and we don't know the details. Where you're definitely wrong is on the "diplomatic agreement that worked". Iran continued to enrich violating the agreement, the agreement was time bound and not indefinite (and would have already expired anyways), and it enabled them to sell oil and raise a lot of money to fuel their wars, missi…

Since my other reply was flagged, and I'm past the edit window, and I learnt a little more about the nuance: - Technically Iran was considered to be meeting the requirements of the JCPOA during the 2016-2018 period in reports issued at the time . - Iran failed to declare all its sites and programs before entering the JCPOA. This is known now, after the fact. - Technically some argue that because Iran participated in…

I appreciate that you dug further into it.

While it’s difficult to say to what extent they were going beyond there agreement, it’s clear that they were. I’m not aware of any evidence that it was to the level of, “they’re continuing to make quick progress towards a bomb.” Which is what happened when the US decided to reneg.

There were another seven years to negotiate what’s next and real progress made from both sides trusting each other. That’s the type of momentum needed for further diplomacy (e.g. counteracting more bellicose members of the IRGC.) Instead, we got the opposite. And for what?

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#363

Post by CMay »

Georgelemental wrote: post #347
CMay wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda. If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

It's not Israel's "fault" that American leaders are slavishly loyal to them. Israel is just putting their country first, as is their duty. It's 100% on American politicians for failing in their duty to put America first

We are putting America first. Usually when we get involved in anything, it's a result of many reasons intersecting. We tend to wait until enough reasons pile up that acting is worth it. If the only reason you can think of is Israel, who trained your brain to default to that? Who does it benefit for them to be invested in making you think that way?

You are bombarded with so many things that tell you everything is bad and going wrong in the world, it's easy to get pulled into the gravity of it without ever asking what is going right? So much so, people deny anything is going right, emotionally.

There is a large gap between what the general populace understands about the world and how it works, versus the actual logic that causes the world events. When the gap is large like that it takes more effort to understand and so fewer people in the world will. The harder it is to understand, the easier it is for people to spread lies about. Does consensus alone make something true? No.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#364

Post by fakedang »

roenxi wrote: post #306
karp773 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. That"s why Epstein wired millions of dollars to Russia, had a Russian bodyguard, gave away his estate to some Belorussian woman, and so on. Obviously, Mossad at work here!

The US is currently waging a proxy war against Russia where they've managed to engineer something like 1,000,000 Russian casualties according to credible estimates [0]. Although obviously they're doing that for moral reasons since Russia launched an unprovoked war to maintain a sphere of influence around their borders which serious people in the US establishment have explained no country should be allowed to do. Mean…

Please don't give credit for current Ukrainian advances to the Trumpenreich. The US intelligence apparatus was apparently even sharing NATO intelligence and information with Russia on Ukrainian positions. Once the EU excluded the US completely from this, Ukraine has made much more progress recently.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#365

Post by pandaman »

slg wrote: post #331
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

I don't like how Americans dismiss their own agency in this all. This is not being forced on us by Israel. A huge and underdiscussed reason why the US and Israel have the relationship they do is because of the roughly 100m American Evangelicals that want it that way. That's also why the GOP is seen as the party more favorable to Israel (not that the Democrats are necessarily adversarial, but they clearly aren't as ag…

Yeah, I've seen that show too. It's not real. You could tell by the fact they've never mentioned AIPAC in the entire run of the show.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#366

Post by SilverElfin »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

[flagged]

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#367

Post by kaikai »

m-ee wrote: post #332
solenoid0937 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In part it's because they have the best intelligence apparatus in the world. I'm very impressed at how far above their weight they're punching.

The best intelligence apparatus in the world missed the Oct 7 planning which Egyptian intelligence noticed, told the Israelis about directly, and still went ignored?

Hence the theory that they did know, but chose to let it happen in order to justify the following escalation

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#368

Post by komali2 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #347
CMay wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda. If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

It's not Israel's "fault" that American leaders are slavishly loyal to them. Israel is just putting their country first, as is their duty. It's 100% on American politicians for failing in their duty to put America first

> Israel is just putting their country first

Is walking down the street, slugging everyone that gets in your way, "putting yourself first?" Is moving your fence into your neighbor's lawn and then pulling a gun on them when they come to talk about it "putting yourself first?"

At some point Israel needs to reckon with the fact that its behavior is beyond selfish, it's suicidal.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#369

Post by nixon_why69 »

dmix wrote: post #360
fakedang wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the part where the Lebanon ceasefire was announced, Israel decided to continue its bombing and occupation campaign and broke the ceasefire, then Trump immediately announced the blockade stays in that TS rant.

Technically Hezbollah fired rockets at Israel first on March 2nd and Israel responded… then Israel repeatedly bullshitted some ceasefires to keep the US placated while they simultaneously ramping up both a ground invasion and air campaign. Hezbollah equally is no doubt being pushed hard to keep fighting by Iran. Israel is definitely showing they are a bad partner to the US and should be the more responsible one (nobo…

Pretty much all of shi'a Lebanon has been occupied and Israel has publicly stated their plan is to turn it into Gaza. Dunno if Hezbollah needs encouragement from anyone else at this point.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#370

Post by SilverElfin »

fakedang wrote: post #350
m-ee wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best intelligence apparatus in the world missed the Oct 7 planning which Egyptian intelligence noticed, told the Israelis about directly, and still went ignored?

This is what I ask everyone who thinks October 7 was an attack launched by Hamas of its own volition. Anyone who's been to and seen the Gaza border knows how impossible it is to cross - unless of course there was some inside permittance.

[flagged]
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