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Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#361
post #230

The criticism seems politically motivated. Considering what happened to Blue Origin, SpaceX's success is commendable. Although I agree $1.8T seems crazy.

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There's a lot of it. But I also see a lot more skepticism of Musk and the rest of the intellectual dork web. Flirting with fascism was edgy. Now it's just icky.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#362
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery is evil. Fossil fuels is actually still a net good for humanity. E.g. the consequences of removing access to these energy sources, would be overwhelmingly more negative for humanity right now, than the consequence of global warming. The transition is moving ahead, it just takes time, and we need more technological breakthroughs and innovation. Trying to attack production instead of solving demand, can cause s…

Doesn’t one major fund reducing investment in fossil fuels and increasing investment in renewable energy precisely migrate towards the notion of helping solve demand and encourage technological breakthroughs and innovation?

I think the right way to go about this is to tax consumption. The most efficient one would just be a co2 tax, to not favoritize some emission over others. This is mostly fine in western rich countries, and we already do this to some extent by putting extra taxes and fees on petrol, carbon emissions and stuff.

Becoming reliant on countries you dont want to be reliant on, and pretending we dont desperately need this to get the wheels turning is a strategic blunder.

Higher global fossil fuels costs have strong negative effects on peoples welfare, especially in poorer countries. Whenever we get high oil/gas prices, we get price jumps on artificial fertilizer, food, transport and energy. Everything gets more expensive. Its straight up national emergency when something threatens supply of oil and gas in many of these countries when we get events like closing of the hormuz strait.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#363
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway the oil fund are actively arguing against boycotting these kinds of companies saying, and I paraphrase: "but our job is to earn money and we can't do that if you hippies keep standing in the way with your morals" Good to see it isn't necessarily the case.

> our job is to earn money Which is exactly why you wouldn't put it in a company with a ridiculous valuation.

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#364
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is headed by a person who is a strong ally of a politician who openly challenges Denmark's sovereignty over Greenland. Guess you wouldn't mind selling your organs to the same group of powerful people for a few bucks because you're not virtue signalling?

Yeah, but they say it is because of weapons and climate change and not because of all of this

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#365
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is headed by a person who is a strong ally of a politician who openly challenges Denmark's sovereignty over Greenland. Guess you wouldn't mind selling your organs to the same group of powerful people for a few bucks because you're not virtue signalling?

Yeah, but they say it is because of weapons and climate change and not because of all of this

Right, you could disagree on which things to prioritize over dollar profits. My main point is that these preferences are not irrational like was asserted. At the scale of a sovereign wealth fund or pensions, you need to care about externalities; in the case of Denmark vs SpaceX you have something relatively concrete, in other cases we need to keep in mind that the goal of these funds are to improve the welfare of who they serve, and see past the dollar signs to take into account the consequences of the investments.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#366
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fossil fuel part doesn't seem like a rational decision to me. Why are we pretending that fossil fuels dont provide an immense amount of value for humanity, and that its horrible to invest or support building out any fossil fuel production whatsoever. Lets not do produce it ourselves, lets just instead outsource it to the gulfs and Russia…

It’s more about trying to help the cleaner energy sources get off the ground, rather than a purely financial incentive.

How much extra investment to you think green tech companies get for pension funds excluding investment in this sector? They also only invest in publicly listed companies, not green startups. To me it seems like the exclusion is based on them viewing it immoral to invest in these companies..

I think the right way to go about this is to tax consumption of fossil fuels in countries where we can afford it and use the money to subsidize green tech/industry.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#367
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, but i wouldn't want my money manager to attempt to engage in unethical or illegal practices in order to turn a profit...

The point is that it's the job of the democratic legislature to codify what you just stated here into law, so that all money managers have to abide by this standard, not just those that have a personal conviction for it. That's the essence of rule of law.

You can't have a functioning government if it's elected by a corrupt society. Exhibit A, current US situation.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#368
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fossil fuel part doesn't seem like a rational decision to me. Why are we pretending that fossil fuels dont provide an immense amount of value for humanity, and that its horrible to invest or support building out any fossil fuel production whatsoever. Lets not do produce it ourselves, lets just instead outsource it to the gulfs and Russia…

If it's so valuable why don't you want to buy it from the Russians and the Gulf?

I think Europe happily buys from the Gulf currently, and reluctantly buys from Russia if they have to.

Its more about being self sufficient. This is something that can easily be weaponized against us. E.g. Russia using Europes own money to finance their invasion of Ukraine.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The datacenter thing is mostly just a meme that billionaires say because it makes them feel smart and gets them media attention, it doesn't seem to move stock significantly. The actual distortion field is around Starlink. Which is the main product and the only one that's (nominally) profitable. It's the one all the hype centers around. xAI is barely even notable in the AI space. This also makes it possible to judge t…

I find it amusing to read comments like these, because they remind me of the massive awareness gap between people who understand SpaceX's product line, and those who don't. In your world, you only see and interpret SpaceX's existing products. You then see SpaceX's eye-watering valuation, and then are confused where this comes from. Meanwhile, people who understand SpaceX's product line, and the implications these pro…

I'd love to know what your analysis. This is a genuine request. No snark. I'm genuinely curious of other view points.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The datacenter thing is mostly just a meme that billionaires say because it makes them feel smart and gets them media attention, it doesn't seem to move stock significantly. The actual distortion field is around Starlink. Which is the main product and the only one that's (nominally) profitable. It's the one all the hype centers around. xAI is barely even notable in the AI space. This also makes it possible to judge t…

> The datacenter thing is mostly just a meme that billionaires say because it makes them feel smart and gets them media attention, it doesn't seem to move stock significantly. A significant portion of their valuation is based on this. The spacex private stock price moved significantly based on this data center narrative. > And for what it concerns shareholders, a strictly worse one than a conventional ISP. This is ig…

> There is absolutely zero meaningful competition to Starlink in the maritime, aviation, and remote internet markets.

There are roughly 100,000 ships at sea. There are roughly 15,000 planes in the sky.

The remote internet markets are remote because either A) exceedingly few people live there, or B) exceedingly poor people live there. (And usually, both at the same time)

This just isn't a big market. That's why the telecom giants haven't bothered. To justify a trillion dollar valuation you're gonna need a billion users. SpaceX would be better off putting fiber into the ground in Africa.

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