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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#361

Post by borski »

thewebguyd wrote: post #192
M3L0NM4N wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number 1 predictor of educational outcome is IQ by a long shot, which is hardly affected by any of the factors you listed. Yes, high IQ kids usually have high IQ parents who are likely to prevent those things, partly because they are likely high income, but none of those are as important as how smart the child is.

The heritability of IQ actually changes based on wealth, so its the other way around. A child from a wealthy family will reach their potential, where one from a poorer family will not. ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14629696/ ) A child may have the genetic potential but never reach their potential because of outside factors. One's environment shapes one's brain development. That's why equity is just as important a…

> A child from a wealthy family will reach their potential, where one from a poorer family will not.

may not. I’m not just being pedantic; it’s very important to recognize that being impoverished is not the same as being incapable.

But it does mean you’re living life on hard mode.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#362

Post by jobs_throwaway »

eunos wrote: post #32
StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

And SAT as high school math exam itself I think is way too easy. They should design another test which can clearly distinguish top 1% or even 0.1%.from others

Yes, the scores at the top are way too bunched. A perfect score should indicate generational genius, not the 100th smartest kid your year in California.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#363

Post by rahimnathwani » 

  "In 11th grade, the most relevant grade relating to college readiness, 30.5% of students met or exceeded math learning standards. Of these, nearly half exceeded the learning standard — marking them as likely to be the best prepared for a college STEM major."
You can see this 30.5% in the 'grade 11' chart on this page: https://tools.encona.com/caaspp-explorer#slots=state&s=math

Politicians in California want the ethnic mix of students at public universities to reflect the ethnic mix of the state population. They cannot achieve this goal if colleges use academic preparedness as the main factor in admissions:

https://tools.encona.com/caaspp-explorer#slots=state%7E76%2C...

Academics presumably have multiple reasons to want students showing up having mastered the prerequisites of whichever class they're taking.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#364

Post by tracker1 »

VortexLain wrote: post #241
skydhash wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students also see power drills and cars, and schools don’t use them as part of the curriculum. I have a lot of computing device and still believes in real books and pen or paper for learning anything. The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Even those TI calculators can be overkill. I’ve only used one in college, and it was for a few exams about polar coordinates a…

> The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Although this is the case for many people, I personally struggle to process information and write it on paper at the same time. Thus, I strongly prefer digital note-taking and use Obsidian or just vim instead of paper.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't see how typing it into a computer is significantly different than writing it on paper.

Is there something stopping you, or anyone from writing it down and taking notes in class and then reviewing it later as needed? Not just process it in lecture time, but regurgitate it to physical form for later review.

Also, I would definitely constrain this into educational groups, where K-6 are much different from college (post mandatory) education.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#365

Post by tracker1 »

smcg wrote: post #228
skydhash wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students also see power drills and cars, and schools don’t use them as part of the curriculum. I have a lot of computing device and still believes in real books and pen or paper for learning anything. The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Even those TI calculators can be overkill. I’ve only used one in college, and it was for a few exams about polar coordinates a…

shop class and drivers ed used to be offered by schools...

But you didn't include them in your English or Math classes. They were optional courses, and for older students, not K-6.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#366

Post by dirtikiti »

j_w wrote: post #275
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your issue with redirecting funding from sucky schools towards ones that deliver results, while allowing school choice for students at the same time? I may be naive but that sounds fairly good

Because the "sucky" schools are statistically where poor people go to school, which statistically is where minorities go to school. School choice is bad because the only people who benefit from school choice are already wealthy - they can afford to transport their child to the school of their choice.

>> School choice is bad because the only people who benefit from school choice are already wealthy - they can afford to transport their child to the school of their choice.

So what?

If "level the playing field" means my kid gets a sub standard education because you have to constantly lower the bar, I don't want to play your game.

This stuff isn't new. Everyone understands the importance of education, and everyone understands the importance of being involved in your child's education.

It isn't about poor and minority. It's about being a good parent.

Some people don't have that ability, and my kid shouldn't be punished for it, regardless of the money in my wallet.

There are plenty of examples of single parent and low income households where they value education and push their kids to doing better.

At some point, it has to be about personal responsibility and not blaming everyone else for your failure to be a good parent.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#367

Post by bmn__ »

HelloNurse wrote: post #258
Bratmon wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the answer to this is that schooling/care for people with disabilities that make it impossible for them to succeed in normal school should be a totally different budget with different success criteria than the budget for normal school. There are two different and contradictory goals here- the current dynamic where every gain for one is a loss for the other creates a ton of bad outcomes across the board.

[flagged]

> What sad place do you come from?

Do you have an actual argument? Shaming tactics are ineffective on HN.

Reality check: in most countries, if you made a public demand of effectively depriving the disabled of the proper care they want and deserve, they would regard you as an inhumane monster, and the education ministry would refer you to state prosecution for violating the constitution.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#368

Post by akramachamarei »

59percentmore wrote: post #261
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Ladies and gentlemen, the modern eugenicist. Meanwhile, an anecdote: 11th Grade: Precalculus, all A's 12th Grade: AP Calculus, C average, one D quarter (in the middle of my parents' divorce, onset of body dysmorphia/dysphoria, college entrance applications, senior research practicum) College Sophomore Year: Applied Calculus, aced, highest final score in the class Post-college self-study: Failure to advance Circumstan…

> Within the wider historical scope

In what situations would you attribute effects to concrete, near-term causes instead or abstract, historical ones? In particular, why do you attribute academic success in some areas to historical racism instead of (presumably) modern poverty? In other words, given a cohort of poor kids and not poor kids, which outcomes of each group would you assign to historical racism and why? In particular, would you expect different groups to perform better or worse after controlling for things other than race and experiences of racism?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#369

Post by hedora »

jerlam wrote: post #330
hedora wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California used to have the best schools in the country, and roughly a third of our urban population is Silicon Valley. It's home to the largest economy in the US by a large margin, and is one of the richest states. Yet, somehow, for math: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=... the only states/territories doing worse at math are DC, Puerto Rico, New Mexico, and Alabama. I'm not sure what Alab…

California had below average (for US states) school funding per student until recently: https://edsource.org/2026/california-education-funding-rise/... At times, it was ranked second-worst. I would argue that with California's high cost of living, "average" funding in California is still low relatively speaking.

True, but I was responding to a comment blaming the children for their under-performance. The funding gap isn't somehow due to those kids not wanting to learn, problems at home, etc.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#370

Post by throwaway27448 »

tracker1 wrote: post #304
HelloNurse wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you want to get rid of "advanced" course options and push every student into the same bucket?

I'd be fine with that. It would provide an incentive to care about the bottom 75th percentile along with the spoiled rich kids
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