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Private equity bought America's essential services

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Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#361

Post by WarmWash »

tavavex wrote: post #214
WarmWash wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These mega-strong players always kill themselves and collapse. We can see this on the global geopolitical scale (which fundamentally acts as a true free market), where all the empires have always fallen. The stressing part is when they are at their peak, so people would like to use regulation to short-cut right to the collapse part. The only example we have a true free market victor that hasn't collapsed is humans, w…

But does that collapse happen because of some universal axiom about controlling humans, or were those empires merely limited by what was possible in their era? This is the first time in history we have so much military power, ways to exert influence that's truly world-spanning, the most sophisticated technology and the most thorough surveillance ever - all at the same time. Whatever barrier there might be, who's to s…

I'd say the axiom is that as your system becomes larger, more complex, the number of stable states it can exist in shrink. Which is something that is just generally true about systems.

We can envision a future with an ASI controlled super corporation that owns everything with omnipresent micromanagement, but then why would the ASI even bother with humans. That event right there would be our "got to powerful for our(humans) own good" moment.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#362

Post by itake »

tw04 wrote: post #41
itake wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don't see is the other side of this story: the sellers. I don't get why sellers are selling to PE. Can these services not "IPO"? Why do these companies need to sell? When PE takes over medical practices, my understanding is there just isn't enough capital available for a dentist to "cash out". The options are either they find another dentist to buy it, the close the practice, or they sell the private equi…

Out of the gate you need $27.5m in cash flow with $2.2m in profit. I doubt there are many single practice dentists doing that kind of volume. You can’t just IPO because you want out of the business. There’s lots of reporting and regulatory requirements to ensure you aren’t screwing investors.

I don't get for the sellers, what is the alternative? It feels like their only choice is LBO PE deal.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#363

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

Balgair wrote: post #300
scary-size wrote: post #152

Huh, that somehow reminds me of Crassus from Rome [1] > The first ever Roman fire brigade was created by Crassus. Fires were almost a daily occurrence in Rome, and Crassus took advantage of the fact that Rome had no fire department, by creating his own brigade—500 men strong—which rushed to burning buildings at the first cry of alarm. Upon arriving at the scene, however, the firefighters did nothing while Crassus off…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae For the curious, above is how Crassus died. TLDR: Got over his skis and mad with power and money. Decides to invade Parthia. Gets wrecked by horse archers. That ends up being typical for Romans, but this was the first-ish time that happened. Some of those captured legionaries may have ended up in China, though it is unlikely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liqian#Lost_Ro…

so instead of simply financing military operation and staying home, he went in himself?

in some sense I even respect that decision

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#364

Post by itake »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #298
tw04 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of the gate you need $27.5m in cash flow with $2.2m in profit. I doubt there are many single practice dentists doing that kind of volume. You can’t just IPO because you want out of the business. There’s lots of reporting and regulatory requirements to ensure you aren’t screwing investors.

In the past farmers needed COOPs in order to make their products/the local community's economy viable. Today we need something like COIVs (community owned investment vehicles). Kiva for the rest of us I guess.

I'm trying to be generous here... but prisoner's dilemma says the people in a community are probably better to park their money outside of the community in order to protect (and grow) their retirement investments.

Yes, it would be better for the community if people chose to invest locally instead of the SnP 500, but running out of money in retirement is a very real fear and the SnP500 is much better/safer for most people than COIVs.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#365

Post by gosub100 »

spyckie2 wrote: post #337
jmyeet wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads as apologia, blame-shifting, "I was just following orders". People have to eat. They need water. They need a roof over their head. Nobody has to buy out all the veterinarians in an area at rates they can't say no to, have them sign non-competes and them jack up all the prices by 300% because, hey, you now own all of them. Nobody has to buy up all the trailer parks, which are normally peopple's last stop be…

To clarify the main point is it is wrong but because it affects old people no one wants to crusade against it. It has the perfect moral excuse to hide behind.

I've never heard of the tie between PE and pensions until today.

I find it very hard to believe that if pensions didn't exist, nobody would have come along and exploited the same loopholes.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#366

Post by tavavex »

pickledish wrote: post #341

clicks > When a fire truck fails to deploy in a burning building and four people die, the cause isn’t just mechanical failure. It’s a business model. leaves

When a user clicks the 'close tab' button, it's not just sending a command to their browser. It's sending a signal of disapproval.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#367

Post by itake »

lizardking wrote: post #143
itake wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don't see is the other side of this story: the sellers. I don't get why sellers are selling to PE. Can these services not "IPO"? Why do these companies need to sell? When PE takes over medical practices, my understanding is there just isn't enough capital available for a dentist to "cash out". The options are either they find another dentist to buy it, the close the practice, or they sell the private equi…

Going the IPO route is not an option for most of the companies being acquired (vets, plumbers, electricians, construction companies, etc.)

If not PE / LBO, what is the alternative?

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#368

Post by jpb0104 »

trevithick wrote: post #267
Aurornis wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hard-working founders should be able to cash out, but there has to be a better system than this one. Succession, maybe. The large PE buyouts that came from the ridiculous ZIRP period could deliver better financial stability than handing the business down. I know two families with businesses that attracted huge PE offers in the past few years. One of them took the buyout and the family members slowly left their jobs…

Companies need to brand as "Not owned by PE" the same way health food has prominent labels on the packaging.

Agree. I think that's what "Owner Operated" used to mean. Would be interesting to have a certification for these businesses. I've also started collecting related links:

https://privateequityvet.org/vet-list/ https://whoownsmydentists.com/ https://ledger.worseonpurpose.com/

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#369

Post by itake »

balderdash wrote: post #106
itake wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don't see is the other side of this story: the sellers. I don't get why sellers are selling to PE. Can these services not "IPO"? Why do these companies need to sell? When PE takes over medical practices, my understanding is there just isn't enough capital available for a dentist to "cash out". The options are either they find another dentist to buy it, the close the practice, or they sell the private equi…

why would you think a public traded company behaves any better than a privately owned one?

My understanding is people don't like the PE / LBO with a single investor, because it loads the company with debt that it pays back via cutting quality and service offerings.

My assumption is publicly traded company would have access to better financing terms and a diverse set of investors with less "hunger" the financial shenanigans the PE investors have.

Re: Private equity bought America's essential services

#370

Post by piva00 »

protonbob wrote: post #345
piva00 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It lowered the chances, and in case of getting sick it also massively lowered the chances of getting the worst side-effects, exactly like any other vaccine does. It's a shame that even highly educated populations do not understand a basic fact of immunology.

Yeah what a shame. I never claimed that it didn't lower the chances of side effects. This is what was claimed. "You become a dead end to the virus." — Fauci, 2021 This was the reality "[Vaccines against respiratory viruses produce] decidedly suboptimal protection." — Fauci, Cell Host & Microbe journal article, 2023 "The durability of protection against infection and hence transmission was relatively limited." — Fauci…

I don't live in the USA, so whatever was claimed is not universal.
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