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Google Declaring War on the Web

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Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#361

Post by lelanthran »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #360
lelanthran wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that what organizations do in general? A person grows your food and installed the plumbing in your house and wrote a component of the web browser you're using. The person growing the food I get or the plumber installing a toilet never asked for attribution because it wasn't relevant to their pay. > Do you know their names? As a matter of fact, for things that require attribution, I do know their names. You do…

> The person growing the food I get or the plumber installing a toilet never asked for attribution because it wasn't relevant to their pay. But it is though. If they do a good job then you could have customers wanting the same one again. You go to the grocery store and there is just a bin full of undifferentiated produce. Some days they're juicier than others. They came from different farms. But they don't even tell…

> But it is though.

Is it? Lets see your reason for thinking that.

> If they do a good job then you could have customers wanting the same one again. You go to the grocery store and there is just a bin full of undifferentiated produce. Some days they're juicier than others. They came from different farms. But they don't even tell you when they switch from one to another, so how is a farmer who is doing a better job supposed to get more business or command higher prices?

As far as I can see from the text above, you feel it should be relevant to their pay, but nothing you say makes me think that it currently is relevant to their pay.

What you think should be happening is not my point; I am only saying that it isn't happening.

> Blogs include the author's name because they want to, not because they're required to.

But that's my point! You appear to agree that the labour supplier in this specific case wants attribution, and yet you are arguing that they should not get it?

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#362

Post by rcxdude »

casualgaming226 wrote: post #214
JohnBooty wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dichotomy is so false. However else you feel, AI is a force multiplier, and that can also REALLY benefit "Artisanal work + Small Business" I feel like the "one person app creator" business is so much more viable than it has been since Web 1.0 Five years ago, to run your own solo business in this space, you had to know most of the following: taxes, legal, backend, frontend, devops, iOS dev, Android dev, and marke…

> However else you feel, AI is a force multiplier, and that can also REALLY benefit "Artisanal work + Small Business" > Five years ago, to run your own solo business in this space, you had to know most of the following: taxes, legal, backend, frontend, devops, iOS dev, Android dev, and marketing and then pay through the nose for most of the ones you didn't. AI helps to paper over a LOT of those gaps... and you can sp…

I would say doing taxes is not at all an artisanal activity, and the fact that we expect artists to deal with it is not a great thing.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#363

Post by account42 »

gammarator wrote: post #261
valicord wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My IKEA furniture has lasted 12 years so far, including 3 moves, with only minor cosmetic damage.

I have a 20 year old Malm dresser that made four moves and is doing just fine. (I do have it screwed into the wall as it’s been recalled for tipovers.)

Keep in mind that IKEA today is also not going to be the same quality as IKEA 20 years ago, even for products that still have the same name and look.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#364

Post by AnthonyMouse »

lelanthran wrote: post #361
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The person growing the food I get or the plumber installing a toilet never asked for attribution because it wasn't relevant to their pay. But it is though. If they do a good job then you could have customers wanting the same one again. You go to the grocery store and there is just a bin full of undifferentiated produce. Some days they're juicier than others. They came from different farms. But they don't even tell…

> But it is though. Is it? Lets see your reason for thinking that. > If they do a good job then you could have customers wanting the same one again. You go to the grocery store and there is just a bin full of undifferentiated produce. Some days they're juicier than others. They came from different farms. But they don't even tell you when they switch from one to another, so how is a farmer who is doing a better job su…

> As far as I can see from the text above, you feel it should be relevant to their pay, but nothing you say makes me think that it currently is relevant to their pay.

No, it currently is relevant to their pay. They would be paid a different amount if the quality of their product was attributable by the customer to the specific producer. It affects how many customers/sales they get.

> You appear to agree that the labour supplier in this specific case wants attribution, and yet you are arguing that they should not get it?

But how is that any different than any other case? If the farmer wants attribution, that doesn't mean Walmart is giving it to them.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#365

Post by account42 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #198
marcus_holmes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make my own furniture. I am absolutely not a carpenter. But I hate Ikea furniture - it's made of shitty, flimsy, materials, and its design priorities are all based on cost and ease of transport, not on being great furniture that will last years and be an actual asset to the home. This is an analogy, obviously. Ikea has been innovative, and it does provide a useful service for people; if you just moved into a new pl…

Do you think that AI could actually free up time in your life in other areas, so that you could spend more time doing the things you love like making furniture? Or maybe help you directly in your furniture-making, by perhaps helping you to research things? Please don't misunderstand: my point is not "AI is good." It is problematic in many ways. My point is that I think the "AI versus actually doing cool human-crafted…

No, because the machine consumes all of your time that it can take without literally killing you. If you manage to free some time somewhere, the machine will adapt and eat it up. We have so-called developed countries talking about raising the retirement age and cutting holidays, that's the "future" we are living in.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#366

Post by rcxdude »

jpkw wrote: post #85
analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

At least for art - I don't think you'll find anyone who actually enjoys art hanging up anything produced by AI on their walls. For these kinds of "customers", they could equally easily frame & hang up a poster of the Mona Lisa. Artists are not at threat, if anything, AI makes original artworks more precious & enjoyable.

> I don't think you'll find anyone who actually enjoys art hanging up anything produced by AI on their walls

This does feel like a setup for a no true scotsman argument. What would your definition of 'actually enjoying art' be that would not exclude someone enjoying art that uses generative AI by definition?

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#367

Post by xyzal »

"imagine you are Google circa 2002. users enter a search query and you return 10 relevant HTML links to specific, real web pages, with no commentary or any extra guff. you must literally only return a list of links. if you do anything apart from that you've got it wrong and need to try again. my query is: %s"

why do things the easy way when you can do it the complicated way

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#368

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Procrastes wrote: post #183
marcus_holmes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make my own furniture. I am absolutely not a carpenter. But I hate Ikea furniture - it's made of shitty, flimsy, materials, and its design priorities are all based on cost and ease of transport, not on being great furniture that will last years and be an actual asset to the home. This is an analogy, obviously. Ikea has been innovative, and it does provide a useful service for people; if you just moved into a new pl…

I want to buy you a CMOT Dibbler Sausage for the Vimes reference. Perfect metaphor for this situation. His point was that it was the cheap boots that keep people poor, so that makes me think artist and artisan patronage will be an even bigger thing in years to come.

I’ve become quite doubtful about the Vimes theory because getting boots resoled involves labour so has become relatively expensive.

Also my expensive boots didn’t last a lifetime, last time I went to get them resoled I was told they had deteriorated too far.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#369

Post by lelanthran »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #364
lelanthran wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it is though. Is it? Lets see your reason for thinking that. > If they do a good job then you could have customers wanting the same one again. You go to the grocery store and there is just a bin full of undifferentiated produce. Some days they're juicier than others. They came from different farms. But they don't even tell you when they switch from one to another, so how is a farmer who is doing a better job su…

> As far as I can see from the text above, you feel it should be relevant to their pay, but nothing you say makes me think that it currently is relevant to their pay. No, it currently is relevant to their pay. They would be paid a different amount if the quality of their product was attributable by the customer to the specific producer. It affects how many customers/sales they get. > You appear to agree that the labo…

> They would be paid a different amount if the quality of their product was attributable by the customer to the specific producer.

You are proposing a hypothetical; that is not what is currently happening.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#370

Post by tonyedgecombe »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #250
wanoir wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Vimes Theory of boots (rich people buy boots that last generations, poor people buy boots every year) This made me think of a fascinating exception to this Luxury-brand cars usually get turned over every couple years so as to avoid their inevitable maintenance cliff

It is an interesting exception. The really rich people that I know of drive 10-year-old beaten-up Land Rovers, though. I think there's a nouveau-riche slice of folks who buy "luxury" cars thinking that they confer status. There are brands like this in every industry, that adopt all the pointers of "luxury" except actual quality.

I see this in my village. There is a good mix of private and social housing. The private houses tend to have modest cars whereas the social houses have something flash.
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