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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#361

Post by robocat »

rolph wrote: post #265
robocat wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did he need a second 250 billion after the first 250 billion? Makes me think of a inverted Zeno's paradox. Why do you need an extra dollar? I can answer for myself: New Zealand plans to tax the shit out of anyone that has more[A]. You need a fukton more than median wealth to be able to protect yourself against your own government. The type of person that enjoys chasing money doesn't stop. [A] via capital gains ta…

"Why did he need a second 250 billion after the first 250 billion" because thats another 250 billion less for a competitor to use against you.

That is zero-sum thinking.

I'm not sure how one can learn to see the world in a more positive light...

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#362

Post by duxup »

bambax wrote: post #184
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

I'm unfamiliar with the US legal system but do they really need a jury and a trial to determine whether the claims are barred by the statute of limitations? Couldn't this be decided by a judge before trial?

If it’s a very clear fact yes a judge can make the call. In this case what Musk knew was part of that and a jury then had to make the call on what the fact was.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#363

Post by protocolture »

htx80nerd wrote: post #316
keeda wrote: post #173

While none of the billionnaires on the stand came across as stellar paragons of virtue, it's hilarious that even they could not stand Elon. That said, even though Altman is a shifty dude who's clearly playing a Game of Thrones while all others are playing Capitalism, I am extremely grateful that it's him running OpenAI and not Elon. Seeing what Elon has done to Twitter, I shudder to think of what he'd do with ChatGPT…

[flagged]

"Free Speech" Do they still censor the word "Cis".

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#364

Post by metalliqaz »

az226 wrote: post #352
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

It’s quite an odd ruling given that OpenAI completed its for profit “conversion” last fall. It seems the biggest value loss to the nonprofit was in this conversion, not in the initial for profit subsidiary creation giving investors capped profit shares.

But this "conversion" was apparently not the focus of the suit, according to OP. Perhaps it occurred after they initiated legal proceedings?

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#365

Post by burkaman »

aeternum wrote: post #354
andrei_says_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder, what does one need a second 500 billion that the first 500 billion is not enough for?

Interestingly, during the trial he promised to donate any potential financial winnings to OpenAI's charity. A move that surprisingly didn't get much press.

I think you are referring to a tweet on March 16th where he said "Btw, the proceeds of any legal victory in the OpenAI case will be donated to charity. I will in no way enrich myself." Not during the trial, not a donation to OpenAI's charity, and obviously not meaningful given his track record of not following through on public statements.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#366

Post by protocolture »

moralestapia wrote: post #181

You can hate Musk all you want but between him and Scam I'd pick Musk any day. What they did to him was unfair, he put in all the money, office and initial push, he deserves a piece of the pie he created . This is quite unfair towards him.

He isn't asking for money tho? He is suing because he believes he was promised that it would be a not for profit forever.

But they have emails from one Elon Musk telling them to structure it roughly how it turned out.

They also have emails including Musk where the profit share is discussed, and his "investment" is talked about as roughly a donation.

Like he could have asked for a profit share at any point and it just doesn't seem to happen?

If the outcome is unfair to Musk, its because Musk worked tirelessly to ensure he had no legal standing with which to make it fair to Musk.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#367

Post by latexr »

mschuster91 wrote: post #340
turtlesdown11 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back when Musk proposed buying Twitter, the site already was in the gutters I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single serious person who'd say Twitter is a better product/experience today than prior to the acquisition. The place continues to bleed users and is the first stop shop for Nazis

> I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single serious person who'd say Twitter is a better product/experience today than prior to the acquisition. I stated that it already was in the gutters. That does not imply it's gotten out of the gutters ever since. Musk took something that was already pretty much dead and gave it a final shot.

> something that was already pretty much dead

You keep saying that, but prior to the acquisition Twitter had finally managed to start turning a profit.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#368

Post by snark42 »

jmyeet wrote: post #188
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

For people unfamiliar, generally speaking in trial courts the jury is the finder of facts and the judge is the finder of law (yes, there are bench trials where the judge does both). As an aside, appeals courts deal in legal issues (ie statutory interpretations and constitutional issues). So not being within the statute of limitations is typically a legal issue so what must've happened here is the jury would've been a…

That fact here was if Musk should have known about the potential breach of charitable trust before 2021 given it started in 2019, if not before, with Microsoft investment and he didn't sue until 2024. There is a 3 year statute of limitations.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#369

Post by jongjong »

I don't think justice applies to any entity with a market cap above $500 billion. What do you think would happen to the jury and the judge if they did the right thing and acknowledged that OpenAI is a non-profit? Probably got threatened already. It wouldn't be safe for them. At least they're awake now. I bet this is just like crypto sector.

The correct remedy would be to return OpenAI to its former non-profit structure but that's never going to happen in the current system.

The next thing after 'too big to fail' is 'too big to litigate.'

Stealing a non-profit entity is legal if enough people dump billions of dollars in it.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#370

Post by [deleted] »

metalliqaz wrote: post #364
az226 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite an odd ruling given that OpenAI completed its for profit “conversion” last fall. It seems the biggest value loss to the nonprofit was in this conversion, not in the initial for profit subsidiary creation giving investors capped profit shares.

But this "conversion" was apparently not the focus of the suit, according to OP. Perhaps it occurred after they initiated legal proceedings?

[deleted]
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