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Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

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Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's ok to want to stick to the past; but don't drag others back who want to move towards the future. Did you read the article about how Mercedes-Benz is bringing back physical controls? So in your opinion are they dragging their customers back to the past? Or are they correcting a mistake?

They are doing neither. All German car companies are idiots. Years of lead compared to all other car manufacturers, threw away all of it with sheer incompetence and bureaucracy. They saw less buttons on Tesla and tried to adopt it as a cost cutting measure instead of thinking of designing a better UX. Result is, laggy/buggy/buttonless bad ux that customers hated. So they are going back with a bad excuse. The mistake…

> All German car companies are idiots.

Or maybe they understand from experience that physical buttons are better? When you can't take your eyes off the road, buttons you can feel with your fingers are better. That's easy to understand, is it not?

> They saw less buttons on Tesla and tried to adopt it as a cost cutting measure

Tesla is doing it as a cost cutting measure too. Elon Musk's philosophy is "the best part is no part".

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#362
But do you have to look at the display to tell what the buttons and knobs are doing.

If you have, say, a HVAC fan speed knob with mechanical stops at the low and high end, and a detent, you never have to look at it. If you have an increase/decrease switch, you may need to look at the display to find out what you're doing. In a car, this means head-down time, eyes off the road.

I have a Black and Decker branded humidifier, which comes from "W Appliance Ltd", a licensee of the Black and Decker name. It's an ultrasonic humidifier with a 1.45 gallon tank and a big filter to remove dissolved solids, so it runs well on tap water. It's an effective humidifier.

This device is an example of how to botch the user interface for a very simple device. There's a big round display, about 12cm across. This has various dedicated icons and a central number display. Around it is a ring which displays a moving bar pattern when the device is running.

From left to right, we have five buttons. They're just touchable areas on the case, not actual pushable controls. The first button is On/Off, and, inevitably today, the same button does both functions. The display lights up when on.

The second button turns on a negative ion generator. This isn't an advertised feature, and it may not actually do anything. If this feature is on, a tiny icon illuminates on the display. This thing is down on the floor and you can't see the smaller icons without getting down on your knees. If you hold this button down for two seconds, the decorative bar pattern on the display is toned down, but not fully turned off.

The third button is fan speed. Available values are 1 to 3. Default is 2. 1 is useless, and 2 is mostly useless, because the water condenses on top of the unit rather than humidifying the room.

The fourth button sets the humidity. Values from 45% to 90% can be cycled through. There's one two-digit display, and it shows the humidity being set when the button has been pushed recently. Otherwise it shows the humidity being measured.

The fifth button sets a timer to turn the thing off after some number of hours.

When the water tank is empty, a tiny icon illuminates. The main display does not change or go dark. The one actionable piece of info the device can give the user is barely visible.

Removing the water tank or turning the device off resets all settings to the defaults. So after each refill, the user must go through setup again.

There's an optional remote available, with the same five buttons.

All this thing needed was one big knob for setting the humidity, with an off position. Plus a nice big indicator light to indicate an empty tank. Instead, they designed a complex user interface that makes it worse.

This kind of mistake appears when UI people design button systems.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#363
post #6

I’m quite suspicious that they do that not because they understood or learned something, but because China requires physical buttons starting next year. And they simply don’t want to lose one of their biggest markets.

Despite China, IT development is a complete disaster in Germany. All car so called German car manufacturers UX/UI is horrible to say the least. Dieter Rams is the only UX/UI designer, who became famous - outside of Germany. Hartmut Esslinger kind of popularized DR, what an irony, that two Germans made history, but of course not in Germany and even in Germany DR wasn't well known. Braun was a brand and statement, but…

Not a hater, just an example from today’s HN front page: Ableton from Berlin. World class UX/UI leading the DAW market for 25 years and counting. Not “Top 100” enough for validation? Just ask Thomas Bangalter. He’s taken it around the world to get lucky.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#364

Is is Mercedes-Benz deciding to bring back buttons, or is it that the EU's NCAP safety rating mandated that they bring back buttons, and they are spinning it as a voluntary decision?

My money is on the latter. I’ll take it, but being bullshitted by these big corporations is the norm.

Auto makers have been aware for years of consumer sentiment around the physical dials is my guess based on the complete consistency I’ve seen.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe" is about 750,000,000 people in about 50 countries. There are huge differences in both culture and economics between one country and another and often even among different parts of the same country. It's probably not a great idea to generalise to "Europe simply cannot compete anymore in technology and tries to legislate away its problems". One of the main reasons Europe doesn't have a lot of big tech companie…

Or maybe they leave voluntarily, because the EU is simply not a place to do business? Because the EU has been regulatory-captured by aging tech entities such as Siemens, IBM and SAP? Mistral, Zendesk, Basecamp, etc. left Europe for the US early on. If we take into account European founders who started their companies in the US right away, the list is even longer.

The EU and Europe are different. 27/50ish (depending on who you ask) countries in Europe are EU member states and they collectively have about 3/5 of the European population.

My own country - the UK - is (in)famously not a part of the EU and I don't think anyone would seriously claim that we have no technological innovation or successful tech businesses here in Cambridge. The city is practically overflowing with tech startups either spun out directly from university research or keen to employ people from the local tech community.

But what tends to happen is that when one of those companies reaches a certain stage the founders will cash out. Not everyone needs to be the next Bezos or Musk. Not everyone needs to see their company of 20 or 50 or 100 people grow to 5000 with international divisions set up before an eventual IPO. Not everyone wants to go through multiple rounds of VC funding and then have to run their company under the influence of the VC's people on the board. There are a lot of founders who would be very happy to take an eight figure payday after 10 or 20 years of working on the business and then have no need to work any longer if they don't want to and the freedom to do almost anything they want for the rest of their lives. I've personally known a few of them. Some did effectively retire. Others later started something new. But one thing I don't recall a single one of them ever expressing is regret over the timing of their exit.

If anything I'd say what is missing here is a culture where people feel the need to carry on past that stage in their startup's growth. And so instead of that successful business continuing - perhaps after some other form of exit for the founders - as a local company that might eventually become big enough to buy up other successful startups we instead see them get taken over by companies ultimately run from the USA because they're the ones with enough resources for an acquisition at that scale. Of course there have been a few that did become much bigger before an eventual exit - ARM is probably the most obvious one locally and for all the tragedies in the Autonomy story it was another - but they are the exception and not the rule here.

To come back to the car business we were originally discussing today - I doubt very much that we will build the next Tesla or BYD or even Polestar here in Cambridge - but I could easily imagine a startup here developing the next generation of car control system and then selling the IP to one of those companies as the exit strategy.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing beats quality, also a valid approach. Also a reason why suvs and their more ridiculous variants picked up so well. People don't need cars that are worse to drive, but sure as hell they want one because others have them.

So you want me to put my big luggage, 3 carry ons and a big stroller in a sedan trunk?

That has nothing to do with the conversion. However I've actually fit all that and more in my Model 3 Tesla. The trunks are huge.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite China, IT development is a complete disaster in Germany. All car so called German car manufacturers UX/UI is horrible to say the least. Dieter Rams is the only UX/UI designer, who became famous - outside of Germany. Hartmut Esslinger kind of popularized DR, what an irony, that two Germans made history, but of course not in Germany and even in Germany DR wasn't well known. Braun was a brand and statement, but…

> And to the haters: Show me any company or product from Germany in IT that is Top 100 globally. Also I wouldn’t want to disagree with you outright, there are still a few important German companies in the IT sector (or related): Siemens, Infineon, Deutsche Telekom, Bechtle, TeamViewer come to my mind. What Siemens exemplifies is that the strength of German industry is not pure software, but high-tech machinery. While…

Technically SAP is a Société Européenne but still somehow the biggest German software developer.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#368
Hope this change comes sooner. My 2025 BMW X5 got AC control as secondary touchscreen menu while giving prev/next song a dedicated button. Every time I turn on/off AC, I would wonder what the industry designer was thinking about when working on this? That made me use voice control to toggle the A/C, which I have to say their voice recognition is pretty decent, got it right 90% of time except when my toddlers are in the back seat mimicking me.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#369
post #47

'He also explained that "I'm a big believer in screens, because I really believe if you want to connect, you have to make the magic work behind the screen." ' I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road. All the audio visual noise from the car is just plain dangerous. I don't want my car to draw my attentio…

I know my wiper fluid is low when I push the button to spray the wiper fluid and a less than normal amount comes out. Why does anyone need a light for that? How often do people use wiper fluid?

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to the haters: Show me any company or product from Germany in IT that is Top 100 globally. Also I wouldn’t want to disagree with you outright, there are still a few important German companies in the IT sector (or related): Siemens, Infineon, Deutsche Telekom, Bechtle, TeamViewer come to my mind. What Siemens exemplifies is that the strength of German industry is not pure software, but high-tech machinery. While…

Technically SAP is a Société Européenne but still somehow the biggest German software developer.

What matters is where the headquarters and key employees are. SE can be based anywhere in EU and even then legal entity stuff isn't what matters.

Origin: German, HQ: German, Accounting regime: German, Main stock listing: German, Executive board: 5/6 German

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