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Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

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361–370 of 463 posts

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How else do you want companies to remove and prevent CSAM? Different situation. Facebook has to do CSAM moderation because it's a publishing platform. People will post CSAM on facebook, so they must do moderation. And "just don't have facebook" isn't a solution because every publication of any sort has to deal with this problem; Any newspaper accepting mail has this problem. (Albeit to a much more scaled down versi…

OpenAI runs ChatGPT where users submit text and photos and OpenAI generates and sends text and photos back. So users could be submitting CSAM. And yes, OpenAI could be generating CSAM. It's not limited to being a pull operation. What am I missing?

What you're missing is that they're "separate" parts of the business.

The core Facebook product is users' posts. It's not possible to separate those two. Nor can one downscale Facebook in a way that stops the problem; The aforementioned "Facebook has had this problem because it's a problem we've had since the medieval days of a town bulletin board"

With OpenAI, the way ChatGPT was built and user submissions are separate things. The GPT models could have been have been trained without this mess. OpenAI could be more selective in what data it scrapes.

While OpenAI cannot stop users sending god knows what in their prompt text and images, OpenAI can choose to not interact with that data beyond the minimum legal retention, by e.g. not using it for training the next generation of models. This would massively downscale the problem.

AI output is another such problem, where A) Maybe this'd be less of a problem if they didn't recklessly include a bunch of CSAM into the training data by accident, and B) LLMs just aren't the kind of fundamental human right that "having a public opinion" is. It would be fine if they were less good, invented years later, or even not invented at all.

The main counterargument to the latter has been the "But China is inventing evil AI" spiel, which is fairly weak. If China builds an orphaned baby crushing machine, we do not need to build an orphaned baby crushing machine of our own. (And the reality is that China is only chasing AI so aggressively because the west does. They're reasonable people, it would have been entirely possible for both the west and China to make a mutual "no orphan crushing" agreement and just accept slower rollout of technology. This is exactly what has been done with human genetic engineering, and China did in fact enforce these norms.)

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> traumatizing contract workers for $2-3 an hour) Is there an hourly rate at which this should be acceptable?

We have coal miners destroying their bodies and lungs, cobalt mining slavery, cocoa nut child labour and de facto slavery, sex workers, CPS investigators, first responders, and doctors with high rates of suicide… Not only is there an acceptable market rate for trauma, it’s sometimes competitive and requires licensing.

There is one difference between first responders/doctors and the other classes (and the moderators under discussion here)

First responders/doctors/CPS investigators see the worst but they also have days where they make a difference. Save a life or multiple lives. I'm sure it's a huge part of what makes the job bearable, and to some meaningful.

I'm not discounting your point about high rates of suicide either. If anything, when you take away any good days, you're left, as a content moderator, with just seeing the worst of the world day in, day out, with nothing to make it meaningful. I'd suggest that's something we as a society should not tolerate as being an acceptable trade for the ability to share cat photos.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#364
post #306

This headline reminds me that “row” is one of these words I’ve been mispronouncing almost my whole life (I just learned the correct pronunciation this year). In this context row rhymes with cow,¹ now dough. ⸻ 1. The first rhyme that came to mind was bow, but I realized there was a problem with that example.

Row as in rowdy

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you want companies to remove and prevent CSAM? It seems like you must have some human involvement to train and monitor. It’s a terrible job, I wouldn’t want to do it, but someone needs to. Perhaps one day, AI will be accurate enough to not need it, but even then you need someone to process complaints and waivers (like someone’s home photos being inaccurately flagged).

> How else do you want companies to remove and prevent CSAM? Different situation. Facebook has to do CSAM moderation because it's a publishing platform. People will post CSAM on facebook, so they must do moderation. And "just don't have facebook" isn't a solution because every publication of any sort has to deal with this problem; Any newspaper accepting mail has this problem. (Albeit to a much more scaled down versi…

Not really different. They would need to report CSAM if it is ever uploaded by a user.

Any website that allows user to upload videos needs some sort of service that can identify and report CSAM.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#366

Not sure which is worse here - that Meta are recording video from customers' smart glasses, or that they are firing people who talk about it.

Or maybe that people are wearing surveillance glasses while they fuck their partner? I know we need to push these companies to not be shitheads, but ultimately you can only be a shithead with the data people give to you (with the exception of things like Flock, who are shitheads with "public" surveillance data).

I know our culture is so supremely fucked at this point that wearing corporate surveillance goggles during intimate moments could somehow be normalized, but holy shit. How did people get so trusting?

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds about right. If you know someone who uses these smart glasses, it's important not to tolerate them whatsoever. Don't speak with them, interact with them. I wouldn't even recommend being in their presence.

Are GoPros acceptable? I went to the beach, jet skiing. One of the guys had Meta glasses. I liked the footage.

People with GoPros are more likely to send, resulting in entertainment value.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#368
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will reluctantly grant Meta that they're up against a really hard problem here. It is a problem of their own making.

They created the concept of CSAM?

No, being so large that it's such a problem for them.

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#369
post #112

A question for the HN folks who work for Meta - Is the pay so good that it makes it worth working for such a morally bankrupt organization?

I’d like to know the well paying and non-morally bankrupt companies. What company out there has a flawless reputation and is paying $400k/yr for senior eng in SV?

There certainly is no middle ground between morally bankrupt and flawless!

Re: Meta in row after workers who saw smart glasses users having sex lose jobs

#370

It still blows my mind that anyone would volunteer to don these smart glasses, it's almost like some alien mindset to me.

Eh, it is the same mindset as the Elon fanboys who constantly rave about Full Self Driving (Supervised). Plenty of that around here.

And the five or six HNers that bought the Apple goggles.

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