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How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

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Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#361

Post by doright »

notthemessiah wrote: post #241

the author wrote this in the Leaflet comments sections: """ through some upsetting turn of events, someone put this on hackernews and started a piranha feeding frenzy of speculation about what / who im referring to here. so just to be clear: i wrote this bulleted list in a couple minutes as a way to rant about the lack of charity i was noticing in 2 places - my family, where 2 members aren't speaking to each other fo…

Having lived through intractable family conflict before, I believe it is a good analogy as to why the continual reinvention of social media will be a fruitless endeavour.

Your options when dealing with truly obstinate family memebers in real life? Stop. Give yourself permission to disengage. There isn't another option. (https://issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing...)

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#362

Post by mapontosevenths »

exodust wrote: post #333
mapontosevenths wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're in a world of mass opinion and mania where ideas spread virally it ceases to be an indicator. Not really. It continues to be an indicator, just a less reliable one. As I said, it's one heuristic. It increases your probability of being right more than it decreases it, but it isn't an absolute rule. Fundamentally, science itself relies on this heuristic to some extent. The idea that an experiment be reprodu…

> You are allowed to be wrong and happy Nobody said you can't. They said the happiness is " decoupled from truth ", which isn't ideal if we care about objective health of a society. Your position seems to imply support for society-level submission to religious dogma. There's no point ignoring actual examples of all these ideas. Hold an "uncommon belief"? According to you, it's a sign you're wrong. " the world isn't c…

A lot of folks seem to be interpreting my heuristic is if it were a hard and fast rule here. Thats not what a heuristic is.

A heuristic is a mental shortcut that allows for quick decisions based on "most likely" outcomes. Its a statistical tool.

In my case I said it should be enough of an indicator for you to double check your work, not that you were automatically wrong. I stand by that.

That said, you're getting into epistemology now, and its important to differentiate between the observed facts and the biased interpetation of them.

I mentioned before that reproducibility in this way is important to science, and the reason it works with science is that we decouple the observation from the interpetation.

When most people observe that 2+2=4 and you get 5 it is likely that you're wrong. You should invest the time to double check your work.

If 50% of the world then tortures that observation through convoluted and error filled reasoning until they can interpret it to mean magic sky daddy wants you to let the priest touch your special no-no place you should ignore them.

Observed reality being in agreement is a much more reliable heuristic than agreement of interpretation, which is often filled with bias.

> They said the happiness is "decoupled from truth", which isn't ideal if we care about objective health of a society...

Happiness is an emotion. Imagine if I'd claimed society should only be allowed to feel lust on Tuesdays. This is no different. You are allowed to feel however you'd like to feel whenever you'd like to feel it.

Making up arbitrary rules about when you're "allowed " or "deserve" to feel good will make you miserable, and you don't have the right to tell the rest of us we have to abide by your misery making emotion rules.

You might consider asking yourself where this idea that you must meet specific prerequisites before being allowed to feel specific feelings came from, and then seriously considering whether it has merit, or if it even actually works.

Are you also restricting when you're "allowed" to feel negative emotions? How does that work? Are you really able to just... not be sad if you dont deserve it? Do you always feel happy when you DO deserve it?

I think the Protestant ethos is soo deeply embedded in you that you might not even know its there.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#363

Post by asdfman123 »

svnt wrote: post #357
asdfman123 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

>> Why do you assume my experience is so different? There are tons of people on forums like these who've dealt with extreme shyness and severe problems, yet managed to persevere. > I am assuming this because you are projecting all over me Projecting means you are making assumptions rooted in your own experience about what I think and how I feel which are not accurate. >> Your struggles might not be nearly as unique a…

No, I know what all that means. I don't know what your perspective is, beyond your defenses.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#364

Post by pilgrim0 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #285
legacynl wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is correct and I'm convinced there comes a point where there's no way out. My friend, things can always improve. Having mental health problems is hard, because you're ultimately using your own 'impaired' brain to analyze your own situation. Talking to a therapist is effective in breaking this, because it forces you to organize your thoughts into something coherent to explain it to your therapist. Only at this…

Some people are just happiest being alone. I usually feel I am in this camp. I can have reasonably good social interactions but it's often awkward and even when it's not it is a lot of work and it doesn't seem commensurate with the reward, which is very little. I like staying at home, reading, tinkering, doing my hobbies. I do not crave the company of others, and walking into a room and having to be "on" even with pe…

I’m also in this camp. There’s nothing better than to be lost in your own flow. However, I find these moments to be richer when someone is silently tinkering besides you, in sort of a passive interaction. Typical people tend to behave awkwardly when there’s no point or reason in talking while in the company of others. This has to be as much as a deficit as the normative definition of social awkwardness. I could never connect with these kind of people, that are always ruining silence for no reason other than trying to escape their own discomfort.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#365

Post by cindyllm »

pilgrim0 wrote: post #364
SoftTalker wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are just happiest being alone. I usually feel I am in this camp. I can have reasonably good social interactions but it's often awkward and even when it's not it is a lot of work and it doesn't seem commensurate with the reward, which is very little. I like staying at home, reading, tinkering, doing my hobbies. I do not crave the company of others, and walking into a room and having to be "on" even with pe…

I’m also in this camp. There’s nothing better than to be lost in your own flow. However, I find these moments to be richer when someone is silently tinkering besides you, in sort of a passive interaction. Typical people tend to behave awkwardly when there’s no point or reason in talking while in the company of others. This has to be as much as a deficit as the normative definition of social awkwardness. I could never…

[dead]

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#367

Post by legacynl »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #313
legacynl wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that a fully grown person (i.e. adult) should be able to regulate their emotions to the point of being able to have a conversation with 3 strangers. You might not like it, it might stress you out a bunch, you can cry afterwards, or have a stiff drink after, but you should be able to set those emotions aside for 30 minutes, especially for something important like a job interview. If someone cannot do that…

What is this obsession with therapy? There is no solid evidence it works yet it is relentlessly recommended.

Yes there is

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#368

Post by legacynl »

NateEag wrote: post #337
legacynl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(If you're an atheist) You shouldn't debate theology with religious people. The whole idea of religion is that they 'believe' despite their experiences, facts, reasoning and logic. There's literally nothing to gain from using logic and reasoning to debate religious people. edit: also the article is sarcastic. You shouldn't retreat into yourself just because you cannot agree on something. Talk about something else.

Some religious people believe because of their experiences. See the (very rare, statistically) experiencers of spontaneous remissions the Catholic Church declares miraculous healings, such as Dafne Gutierrez: https://catholic-miracles.com/miracle/charbel-makhlouf-dafne... I'm not personally sure that's a supernatural event, but if I'd had my eyes deteriorating for years, undergone multiple failed surgeries to stave o…

> Well, I doubt I'd still be agnostic after that.

To me that doesn't follow logically. What if instead of praying to some saint, they found their lucky underwear that they lost when they were a child, and wore that for the first time again? Would that proof that the lucky underwear was somehow instrumental in fixing their eyes?

Apparently the body was able to heal her own eyes, and it would have happened if she prayed to the saint or not.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#369

Post by bluecheese452 »

legacynl wrote: post #367
bluecheese452 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this obsession with therapy? There is no solid evidence it works yet it is relentlessly recommended.

Yes there is

No there isn’t.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#370

Post by legacynl »

mhurron wrote: post #176
legacynl wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that a fully grown person (i.e. adult) should be able to regulate their emotions to the point of being able to have a conversation with 3 strangers. You might not like it, it might stress you out a bunch, you can cry afterwards, or have a stiff drink after, but you should be able to set those emotions aside for 30 minutes, especially for something important like a job interview. If someone cannot do that…

lol, go be yourself on your own time. On my time, you better be normal and happy about it. None of the many many reasons someone may act this way mean they are broken, and therapy is not about 'fixing' someone to be the member of society you deem appropriate.

Awesome of you to put words in my mouth. I don't think people are 'broken' for having mental issues, and even I certainly would never imply that someone is somehow 'less' because of mental issues.

Just as someone with a broken leg is not a 'broken' person, their leg still needs fixing.

just fyi: 2 people could have the same mental health issues, but one could get a diagnosis and the other one doesn't. The reason for that is because a 'diagnosis' is basically just a ticket to get treatment, and thus is solely based on the question: "Will this person be able to deal with the disruptions caused by the issue, without professional intervention?".

If someone has a panic attack every time they talk to 3 strangers, it's is very plausible that this can lead to difficulty making and maintaining friendships and relations, which can likely lead to loneliness, depression, even further excerbated social anxiety, etc. All these afflictions make it even harder to deal with these issues which is why some people cannot break this cycle by themselves.

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