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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#361

Post by jltsiren »

ihsw wrote: post #276
machinekob wrote: post #126

This is only for citizen not refugees/immigrants so both MEA and NA folks can chill.

Why aren't refugees/immigrants conscripted over citizens?

Because citizenship is a commitment, not merely a set of privileges. If you obtain a citizenship (or have it imposed on you upon birth), it comes with a set of duties other residents and visitors do not have. The duty to defend your country is a traditional one.

Some countries may conscript non-citizens or allow them to serve voluntarily. Often because they are more likely to use the military as an extension of foreign policy rather than for defense. Others may see it a waste of effort, as those people are probably not sufficiently committed to the continued existence of the country.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#362

Post by petre »

xandrius wrote: post #176
mikkupikku wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can a state survive if this weren't the norm? Why would men fight and die for a government that views their own wives and daughters as cannon fodder? If the government is conscripting men's wives to war, is it really in the interest of men to risk their own lives to protect that government? If the government took my wife and sent her to war, I'd sooner firebomb a government office than join up to fight for the go…

And what about a government which sends sons? Your point makes absolutely no sense, especially in relation to feminism. Equal rights and equal duties.

Chill, they will soon send robots because everybody else is going to give'em the finger or they're too slow and hard to replace. Look at Russia/Ukraine. Russia is sending minorities and North Koreans to war and they get blown up by drones assembled and flown by Ukrainians. I would totally assemble drones rather than dig trenches or crawl through mud infested with mines. Guess what the North Koreans are now doing in Kursk? De-mining.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#363

Post by Izikiel43 »

bilsbie wrote: post #221

“ Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.” - Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/...

Yeah, those are just pretty words without the power to enforce them, like everything else the UN does

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#364

Post by benj111 »

orange_joe wrote: post #118

How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…

How does the concept of the global citizen survive?

You have a group of citizens who are expected to perform military service, and another group who aren't really invested in the country and don't have to serve.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#365

Post by throw-the-towel »

benj111 wrote: post #364
orange_joe wrote: post #118

How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…

How does the concept of the global citizen survive? You have a group of citizens who are expected to perform military service, and another group who aren't really invested in the country and don't have to serve.

This concept never existed, it was always an illusion.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#366

Post by [deleted] »

carlosjobim wrote: post #342
HappyPanacea wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you single out nation states, all states are similar.

States before nationalism generally used mercenaries to fight their wars. No soldier was dumb enough to think they were protecting their family.

[deleted]

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#367

Post by nubg »

pj_mukh wrote: post #243
orange_joe wrote: post #118

How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…

How does a government express "anti-feminism". Surely you're not suggesting a reduction in voting power for women. So what else would make it seem "fair" to men in your mind?

> Surely you're not suggesting a reduction in voting power for women.

Why not? If the male side has "getting droned your legs off and people watching it in 4k", surely everything less than that has to be on the table for the female side. Not being able to vote physically yourself (you can still influence public opinion, eg through social media, imo a far more effective action than casting 1 vote)

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#368

Post by lpcvoid »

roshin wrote: post #344
bilsbie wrote: post #221

“ Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.” - Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/...

Ukraine has been violating that for young men since the start of its war.

And russia has been violating this too, along with other much worse things, as usual.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#369

Post by subsistence234 »

raffael_de wrote: post #3
The_suffocated wrote: post #2

Not all men, but all men over 17 and under the age of 45. This still seems draconian, though.

Number of characters for the title is limited. And while I wouldn't necessarily call it draconian because after all somebody has to defend my country; it in deed comes as a shock. And it is also shocking that I just randomly stumbled over this news article when this law is in effect already for 3 months. How is it possible that our news talk about all sorts of nonsense but not about something as fundamentally relevan…

Really exposes the current state of journalism in Germany and more broadly Europe: just propaganda and gossip.

A functioning "fourth estate" would have reported on this *before* the law was passed.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#370

Post by eesmith »

SauntSolaire wrote: post #258
eesmith wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that factoid were at all important then the military should use grip strength to determine who to draft, not gender.

They might, if they had a national registry of grip strength. Until then I suppose they'll stick with using the nearest proxy.

Why would they use it at all? Women have been US military soldiers for a long time. Every one of them could have had their grip strength, body strength, etc. measure - if those additional details were predictive of anything useful.

But why? Do drone controllers require massive amounts of grip? The keys for the transport coordinator keyboards require 20 pounds of pressure?

Few things in the military require brute strength. And those women who have that strength shouldn't be rejected simply because they are women.

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