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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#361

Post by red-iron-pine »

graemep wrote: post #299
muskyFelon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a luxury that affluent people have to limit these things. When you're at your limit after a long day of work and still have stuff to do at home the kid gets the phone, iPad, or whatever while parents do the needed to run the household. Wonder why obesity is such a problem for poorer families. Convenience. Yes, tech companies are liable for pushing this technology that they know to be addictive. There is no apolog…

So how did people manage before we had these things?

bible study and alcoholism

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#362

Post by FarmerPotato »

Temporary_31337 wrote: post #342

I know it's brutal, but my kids were raised with iPads, PS3-5, computers, age inappropriate Minecraft and youtube, all kids of gadgets and turned out ok, already earning money (in tech of course) - one is in UX / product building, another more on the core math/theorem side. Protecting kids from tech is like raising your kids in a glass house, yes they are fine while inside but then what?

It's great that your kids had none of the issues reported.

Others have had lives disrupted by addiction.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#363

Post by FarmerPotato »

toast0 wrote: post #256
red_admiral wrote: post #204

I support this, up to the point where a second-grader has to carry four textbooks and four exercise books around on their walk to school; from the rucksack weight to body weight ratio they might as well be training for the marines. Ipads are not the solution - that gets you back to screen/computer mode in the classroom. e-readers/ e-paper tablets might be worth a try. (Just please don't make every child have a mandat…

> I support this, up to the point where a second-grader has to carry four textbooks and four exercise books around on their walk to school; from the rucksack weight to body weight ratio they might as well be training for the marines. I went to school a million years ago, but IIRC we kept our textbooks in the classroom until middle school (7th grade for me). Maybe one textbook might go home with math homework or an En…

Trapper-Keeper!

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#364

Post by fastforwardius »

fasterik wrote: post #262
kpw94 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not using tech that you're describing here. You're talking about literally learning some basic computer skills (such as word processor, excel, reading email, some basic website building, use printer, and some amount of programming) For those, obviously you need a computer and completely agree that those are important skills to learn... But you maybe need to spend 1h/week during last 2 years of middle school on…

Would it be a mistake to use Desmos in a math classroom, or 3Blue1Brown style animations, to build up visual intuition? Should we not teach basic numerical and statistical methods in Python? Should kids be forced to use physical copies of newspapers and journal articles instead of learning how to look things up in a database? I'm all for going back to analog where it makes sense, but it seems wrongheaded to completel…

Skills are less important than foundation.

And Logo or BASIC >> Python in school context IMO.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#365

Post by SkyBelow »

fasterik wrote: post #262
kpw94 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not using tech that you're describing here. You're talking about literally learning some basic computer skills (such as word processor, excel, reading email, some basic website building, use printer, and some amount of programming) For those, obviously you need a computer and completely agree that those are important skills to learn... But you maybe need to spend 1h/week during last 2 years of middle school on…

Would it be a mistake to use Desmos in a math classroom, or 3Blue1Brown style animations, to build up visual intuition? Should we not teach basic numerical and statistical methods in Python? Should kids be forced to use physical copies of newspapers and journal articles instead of learning how to look things up in a database? I'm all for going back to analog where it makes sense, but it seems wrongheaded to completel…

>Would it be a mistake to use Desmos in a math classroom

Maybe. Back in the day I had classes where we had to learn the rough shape of a number of basic functions, which built intuition that helped. This involved drawing a lot of them by hand. Initially by calculating points and estimating, and later by being given an arbitrary function and graphing it. Using Desmos too early would've prevented building these skills.

Once the skills are built, using it doesn't seem a major negative.

I think of it like a calculator. Don't let kids learning basic arithmetic to use a 4 function calculator, but once you hit algebra, that's find (but graphing calculators still aren't).

Best might be to mix it up, some with and some without, but no calculator is preferable to always calculator.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#366

Post by Izikiel43 »

hk__2 wrote: post #249
smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

> Source: I have 10 Finnish kids Wait what?

This guy alone is trying to raise Finland's birth rate.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#367

Post by strokirk »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #171
greenbit wrote: post #18

Having observed a fair amount of computer based primary school, it seems to me anyway that the biggest problem is that kids just can't focus properly that way. Even if the machine is locked down to prevent open internet access, it's just too easy for them to become distracted by the medium itself. Books, pencils and paper may not be flashy, but isn't that actually desirable, in this context?

People are saying, oh i used to doodle, blah blah. But doodling in the margins is very HELPFUL for the rest of your brain to focus and memorize what is happening in the lecture.

Sounds interesting! Any good sources on that subject? I find results pointing both against it and for it, but am not a psychologist.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#368

Post by groby_b »

WalterBright wrote: post #322
groby_b wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When studying, going over the notes, you'll hear the lecture again in your head. That is a) a BS claim and b) wouldn't be a feature, on average, given the quality of college lectures. It seems fairly clear that manual note taking help with learning, over using a computer, but overblown claims like this do more damage than good in convincing people to do the right thing.

> a BS claim It worked for me. Have you tried it? > given the quality of college lectures I attended a university where that wasn't a problem. Prof Daniel Goodstein, for example, turned his lectures into a video series "The Mechanical Universe". But, frankly, I liked his in-person lectures using the blackboard and chalk better.

> It worked for me. Have you tried it?

I have. It doesn't work that way for me - but that hardly matters. More importantly, there's plenty of research around inner monologue and sensory replay also pointing out that this isn't true for most people.

> I attended a university where that wasn't a problem.

You were blessed :)

> But, frankly, I liked his in-person lectures using the blackboard and chalk better.

That's not something I'm arguing against :) I think they're a great teaching tool.

My objection is that making a specious but unsupported, and often easily anecdotally invalidated point to support a case that's actually got a ton of solid evidence in support is detrimental to making that case.

Physical note taking, and being actually present for a lecture are tremendously important. Laptops are hugely problematic for learning. And those points are important enough that we should make solid arguments in favor of them, not easily discredited ones. Because we also know that many students are very muched biased to discarding these points given half a chance.

There's currently a related post on the home page: "Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)"

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#369

Post by amai »

Handwriting is important. But this could also be learned with digital pens. Unfortunately most schools don't have these and instead do just multiple choice on touchscreens.

But have a look at https://dynamilis.com/ for s good app to improve hand writing.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#370

Post by strokirk »

red_admiral wrote: post #204

I support this, up to the point where a second-grader has to carry four textbooks and four exercise books around on their walk to school; from the rucksack weight to body weight ratio they might as well be training for the marines. Ipads are not the solution - that gets you back to screen/computer mode in the classroom. e-readers/ e-paper tablets might be worth a try. (Just please don't make every child have a mandat…

The books in Swedish primary school are tiny, no worries about that.
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