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No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

martinalderson.com

361–370 of 374 posts

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#361
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Opus cannot be 10x larger than the chinese models. If Opus was 10x larger than the chinese models, then Google Vertex/Amazon Bedrock would serve it 10x slower than Deepseek/Kimi/etc. That's not the case. They're in the same order of magnitude of speed.

I agree that Opus almost definitely isn't anywhere near that big, but AWS throughput might not be a great way to measure model size. According to OpenRouter, AWS serves the latest Opus and Sonnet at roughly the same speed. It's likely that they simply allocate hardware differently per model.

The numbers look about right. Opus 4.5 is about 1.5x the size of Sonnet 4.6, and Opus 4/4.1 is about 5x the size of Sonnet 4.5/4.6.

Note that Opus 4.5 is about 1/3 the size of Opus 4/4.1 (and 1/3 the price in the API)

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s one company that has revisited this recently and what’s their detection rate on what sample?

Companies like Originality.ai are always updating their models and you could use a simple Google search to answer your questions.

You could also have had the courtesy to put that in your original post. But let’s not get meta.

I did a quick test and it detected an AI summary of a random topic, even after two prompts to disguise it. So as expected it may have become a lot easier to detect.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies like Originality.ai are always updating their models and you could use a simple Google search to answer your questions.

You could also have had the courtesy to put that in your original post. But let’s not get meta. I did a quick test and it detected an AI summary of a random topic, even after two prompts to disguise it. So as expected it may have become a lot easier to detect.

There are literally hundreds of companies that are doing this. You could have the basic courtesy to do a Google search instead of asking.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#364
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are big enough, you can and will negotiate.

the datacenter has a fixed cost for power, industrial power is not consumer power especially at large scale. Scale really kicks in if you own your power plant (ex: hydro, wind, solar).

Data centres are more complicated than that.

For an example, even if you have a fixed power budget at the data centre level, you still have opportunity costs: if you turn some unused GPUs off, you can run other things hotter.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#365
post #153

> Qwen 3.5 397B-A17B is a good comparison It is not. It's a terrible comparison. Qwen, deepseek and other Chinese models are known for their 10x or even better efficiency compared to Anthropic's. That's why the difference between open router prices and those official providers isn't that different. Plus who knows what open routed providers do in term quantization. They may be getting 100x better efficiency, thus the…

> Plus who knows what open routed providers do in term quantization The quantisation is shown on the provider section.

Fair point.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#366
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I proxy all of my llm completion subscriptions. In a typical 7d span- model completions read write cached_read cache_write claude-opus-4-6 11000 16900000 5840000 1312000000 66120000

17M uncached reads (input) and 6M of uncached writes (output) is $5x17+$25x6=$235 for Opus 4.6 $2x17+$12x6=$106 for Gemini 3 Pro $0.60x17+$3.6x6=$31.80 for Qwen3.5 397B-A17B via Huggingface API

You did not add up cache writes, which are $6.25 / MTok, which is another ~$400

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#367
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are sequential dependencies, so you can't just arbitrarily increase speed by parallelizing over more GPUs. Every token depends on all previous tokens, every layer depends on all previous layers. You can arbitrarily slow a model down by using fewer, slower GPUs (or none at all), though.

With speculative decoding you can use more models to speed up the generation however.

Yes, because speculation has NEVER bitten us in the ass before, right? Coughs in Spectre

Speculative decoding is just running more hardware to get a faster prediction. Essentially, setting more money on fire if you're being billed per token.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#368
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think labs are doing with the minimum 10TB memory in NvLink 72 systems that were publicly reported to all start coming online in November/December of last year? And why would this 1 TB -> 10 TB jump matter so much for Anthropic previously being wholly dependent on running Opus 4x on TPUs, if the models were 2-3T at 4bit and could fit in 8x B200 (1.5 TB = 3T param) widely deployed during the Opus 4 era? Yo…

Well, for one, Anthropic mostly uses Google TPUs and Amazon Inferentia2 chips, not Nvidia NVL72s. That's because... Google and Amazon are major investors in Anthropic. Secondly, you missed out the entire AI industry trend in 2024-2025, where the failure of the GPT-4.5 pretrain run and the pullback from GPT-4 to GPT-4 Turbo to GPT-4o (each of which are smaller in parameter count). GPT-4 is 1.6T, GPT-4 Turbo is general…

I appreciate the detailed comment! I took the day off and am bored so have a brain dump of a reply - basically I think we are talking past each other on two major points:

1. All the discussion about model size is CRITICALLY bisected into talking about TOTAL model size vs ACTIVE parameter size (of a "head" in an "Mixture of Experts"). Everything you've said trend-wise is mostly accurate for ACTIVE parameter count, which is what determines inference cost and speed.

But I am primarily talking about TOTAL parameter count (which has to just fit inside cluster HBM). The total parameter count only affects training cost and has nothing to do with inference cost or speed. So there is no downside to making total parameter count as big as your inference cluster will fit.

2. You touch on distllation, and this heavily relates to the post-gpt-4 base model (call it 5th gen, if gpt-4 was 4th gen), which indeed was used for all models through gpt5.1.

The actual base 5th gen model was as large as OAI could fit on training clusters, and only then distilled down to whatever total size a release model targeted, and the little secret with sparse MOE is the entire model weights don't have to fit (again, plenty of public papers detailing techniques) on a single HBM pool when training. This leads to the 2nd little secret, that GPT-4.5 is ALSO using that same base model; as I said in another comment, 4.5 was all an experiment in testing a huge ACTIVE parameter model (which again is all that determines cost and speed), not so much total (which is capped by inference cluster hardware anyways!) How do you think OAI would be able to serve 4.5 at scale if the model itself was 10x total bigger than everything else? But its easy to serve a model with active parameters 10x bigger!

So this same huge 5th gen base model was distilled down and RLed over and over again in different permutations and sizes to feed the whole OAI model lineup, from o4-mini to advanced voice to gpt4.5 all the way until finally 5.2 starts using a new, "6th gen" base model (with various failed base model trainings between 5th and 6th) (shallotpeat!).

Picking up misc pieces, yes 4o was tiny when served at Q4, which is what Maia 100 did (with some Q6). We are still taking about a ~1T total model. Quantization both static and dynamic was the whole drive behind gpt4-turbo variants which led straight into 4o targeting an extremely economical deployment of 5th gen base. Economical was sorely needed (arrakis!) since this all was at the critical junction when 8xH100s had not been deployed quite at scale yet, but AI use was rocketing off to mainstream, so we had silly situations like Azure being forced to serve on 256gb clusters. (We could go into a whole separate spiel about quantization +history, but suffice it to say everything in deployment is just Q4 these days, and training is mostly Q8)

But this DOES NOT mean o1 was tiny, which conveniently was deployed right when 8xH100s WERE available at scale. We split into the instant tree, where 4.1 was bigger than 4o and 5-instant was bigger than 4.1 etc. And the thinking tree, where o1 = o3 I just think this really all comes down to total vs active, not understanding a huge base model can be distilled into arbitrarily sized release models, and then bizarrely giving weight to Meta's completely incompetent Llama 4 training run (I was there, Gandalf!) as giving any sort of insight on what sort of sparsity ratio cutting edge labs are using. You cannot learn anything about total parameter size from active parameter count+ derivatives (token speed, cost, etc)! But on this topic we could again diverge into an entire debate; I'll just say Google is likely doing like 0.1%-OOM in some production configs (Jim Keller is basically shouting extreme sparsity from the rooftops!).

Brief rebuttal summary:

1. Incorrect as of late 2025. Whole public reporting about Anthropic dissatisfaction with "Project Ranier". Dario talking about Nvidia compute candidly on Dwarkish interview!

2. Active vs Total

3. 4o is small, 4-bit 4o on Azure even smaller. 4o is 5th gen base distilled not gpt-4 distilled.

4. 256gb at Q4 fits 1T parameters! Active vs total

5. 5th gen pretrain / base model is huge! 4.5 uses the same base as 4o and 5.1! Can be shrunk to arbitrary size before RL/post training create finished model! Active vs total

6. Active vs total

7. Active vs total, also Ironwood/TPUv7 and Blackwell give much cheaper Q4 inference

8. Don't trust the Zuck

Anyways its all a mess and I don't think its possible to avoid talking past each other or misunderstanding in semi-casual conversation - even just today Dylan Patel (who is extremely well informed!) was on Dwarkesh podcast talking about 5.4-instant having a smaller active parameter count than GPT-4 (220B active), which is completely true, but instantly gets misinterpreted on twitter et al that 5.4 is a smaller model than gpt-4, ignores that 5-4.instant are 5.4-thinking are totally different models, etc etc, just too much nuance to easily convey.

Re: No, it doesn't cost Anthropic $5k per Claude Code user

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also have had the courtesy to put that in your original post. But let’s not get meta. I did a quick test and it detected an AI summary of a random topic, even after two prompts to disguise it. So as expected it may have become a lot easier to detect.

There are literally hundreds of companies that are doing this. You could have the basic courtesy to do a Google search instead of asking.

This is an Internet forum and one of the ways such places are valuable is that it enables you to ask questions to other humans and allows those other humans, if they'd like, to answer.

You will get better results asking questions like GP's than Googling because you're asking the specific person who made a claim to quote an example, so you can judge from the specific example they provide, rather than the Google results. The best answers are often technically interesting niche tools which don't have great SEO.

Case in point: the platform you recommended does not show up anywhere on my first page of Duck.com results.

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