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TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

bbc.com

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Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#361

Post by johnisgood »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #324
giancarlostoro wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a grown adult and dont do research on “messaging apps” (which Tik Tok is not) then thats really on you.

80% of the population does not and will never do that level of deep dive on apps same discussion for any form of technology be it TVs or changing their car's oil the deliberate app-store-ification of all things computer is also designed to keep people from asking those questions -- just download in and install, pleb. it's why the Zoomers can't email attachments or change file types: all of the computers they grew up…

And I think because of all the handholding we are left worse off.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#362

Post by dheera »

Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

Fine with me too. I think many other apps (WhatsApp, FB, etc.) are using E2EE for PR purposes and are not actually good implementations of E2EE.

Good implementations of E2EE:

1. Generate the key pairs on device, and the private key is never seen by the server nor accessible via any server push triggered code.

2. If an encrypted form of the private key is sent to the server for convenience, it needs to be encrypted with a password with enough bits of entropy to prevent people who have access to the server from being able to brute force decode it.

3. Have an open-source implementation of the client app facilitating verifiability of (1) and (2)

4. Permit the users to self-compile and use the open-source implementation

If company isn't willing to do this, I'd rather they not call it E2EE and dupe the public into thinking they're safe from bad actors.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#363

Post by iamnothere »

azinman2 wrote: post #89
debazel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are just too effect of a tool when building a surveillance state. We should have banned children from owning open computers a long time ago just like we do with Alcohol, Driving licenses, etc. Instead children would own special devices that are locked down and tagged with a "underage" flag when interacting with online services, while adults could continue as normal. We already heavily restrict the freedom of…

Would be a nightmare to implement and achieve the goal, but I have to say I think it’s more right than wrong. All of the data is very clear about the harms. China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this?

Why on earth would we be looking to China as a template on how we should run free societies? Are you mad?

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#364

Post by pino83 »

gzread wrote: post #265
hk__2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch to what exactly?

Alternatives to private messaging on TikTok? Uh, Signal. SimpleX. Session. XMPP/OTR. PGP. Discussing things on TikTok, that the government must not know about, seems a bad idea.

Exactly. And once those ones are established: Why not have all discussions there; not just the ones where you explicitly want to hide something (for whatever dubious or legit reason).

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#365

Post by throwaway290 »

max-privatevoid wrote: post #338
throwaway290 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE That's interesting. You think all firms that audited WhatsApp and Signal protocol used by WhatsApp and all programmers who worked there for decades and can see a lie and leak if it was true are all crooks? valid opinion I guess, but I won't call it "no one should believe for a second (curious you didn't mention Telegram, it is actually m…

I'll believe it when it's FOSS

You mean you will read all code with dependencies and compile it yourself to make sure?;) good for you. but good luck creating a popular e2e messenger then.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#367

Post by azinman2 »

iamnothere wrote: post #363
azinman2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be a nightmare to implement and achieve the goal, but I have to say I think it’s more right than wrong. All of the data is very clear about the harms. China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this?

Why on earth would we be looking to China as a template on how we should run free societies? Are you mad?

Good ideas can come from anywhere. Shutting yourself off only does a disservice. You don’t need to replicate 100% of another society to recognize individual strengths.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-ch...

That describes something very similar to what the OP suggested.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#369

Post by iamnothere »

azinman2 wrote: post #367
iamnothere wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would we be looking to China as a template on how we should run free societies? Are you mad?

Good ideas can come from anywhere. Shutting yourself off only does a disservice. You don’t need to replicate 100% of another society to recognize individual strengths. https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-ch... That describes something very similar to what the OP suggested.

Yeah, sounds like something from an authoritarian police state.

> Essentially, this is a cross-platform, cross-device, government-led parental control system that has been painstakingly planned out by Beijing.

> The rules are incredibly specific: kids under eight, for instance, can only use smart devices for 40 minutes every day and only consume content about “elementary education, hobbies and interests, and liberal arts education”; when they turn eight, they graduate to 60 minutes of screen time and “entertainment content with positive guidance.” Honestly, this newsletter would have to go on forever to explain all the specifics.

We don’t do this in free societies. Let the parents decide.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#370

Post by acheron »

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #334
Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

> as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are) Once you have enormous network effect like TikTok has, you don't really have any free selection of alternative apps. You are free to use one, but you will be the only sad user over there. Regulations are needed that would force large platforms like TikTok and Instagram to enable federation, opening them up to actual co…

“Will we ever end the MySpace monopoly?”

> MySpace is well on the way to becoming what economists call a "natural monopoly". Users have invested so much social capital in putting up data about themselves it is not worth their changing sites, especially since every new user that MySpace attracts adds to its value as a network of interacting people.

> "In social networking, there is a huge advantage to have scale. You can find almost anyone on MySpace and the more time that has been invested in the site, the more locked in people are".

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/feb/08/business....

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