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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#361

Post by randyrand »

gbriel wrote: post #350
WalterGR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. Do you have children? In past HN threads, the preference largely comes down to whether you have children (and want more early morning light for safer trips to school) or not.

Start school later. I understand people also have jobs, start those jobs later. I understand people have expectations about when stores open. They can figure it out that stores open when the sun comes up. If they need to plan they can ask when sunrise is.

Indeed, we could start everything +1 hr later I suppose.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#362

Post by rkomorn »

Reason077 wrote: post #358
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> ”Kids walking, biking, and being driven to school in mornings in darkness ... that's also what permanent DST gives us.” Can’t schools just open 60 (or 30) minutes later if this is a problem? ie: school has winter hours where class starts at 9AM instead of 8:30AM?

I don't get how having "random" things change opening hours is any better than changing clocks.

I'm not a parent, but I can imagine that if some of my schedule had to change by 30 minutes some months out of the year, I'd find it more inconvenient.

What if school starts/ends at a different time but my job does not?

What if I have a standing appointment at a business that keeps its hours year round that now conflicts with one that changed to winter hours?

It seems more like a different set of problems than a solution.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#363

Post by lucumo »

wyre wrote: post #337
kmm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime people extoll the virtues of high noon, I ask the same question: why does it matter if the sun reaches it highest point near 12 o' clock? You're awake for 4-6 hours before 12, and you remain awake for 10-12 hours after it. Noon isn't the middle of the day for nearly anyone in the western world. I understand the argument for having an early sunset, clearly having sunlight when you're awake has an effect. But…

this might be controversial and a sign of growing up in America, but i think its a lot like people preferring Celsius over Fahrenheit. I don't care if water boils and freezes at exactly 100 and 0 degrees, it's easy to know its state by looking at it. But its very easy to understand what temp differences will feel like between 90, 70, 50 degrees F etc compared to 31, 22, and 4 degrees C.

So because we're used to it? I know perfectly how those C numbers will feel. Haven't got a clue about the F numbers.

Anyway, I doubt that that analogy goes for noon. I eat lunch by the clock, not when the sun's highest. I expect most people do. Especially the ones that are cooped up in an office during the daytime.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#364

Post by globular-toast »

Lame. I'm convinced that people think DST actually creates more daylight. If people want more daylight, leave work earlier. Work less. Most of your jobs don't matter anyway. For people who have jobs that do matter, like teachers, nurses etc. the choice between 0 or +1 hardly makes a difference. Should have just gone with 0.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#365

Post by httpsterio »

messe wrote: post #259
pkulak wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess. I'm at 46 degrees and civil twilight at Christmas starts at 7am. I get up at 6:30, so yeah, dead of winter, I spend 30 minutes in darkness. But that's better than 1:30. I guess it kinda hinges on this idea of "wasting" daylight. I don't feel like that. I want the sun to wake me up, and have no problem doing whatever I like when it's dark in the evening. Do people generally go on hikes after work? I go out fo…

56 degrees here (Denmark, and grew up in Ireland @ 53 degrees). > I guess it kinda hinges on this idea of "wasting" daylight. I don't feel like that. I want the sun to wake me up The problem is that during the darkest parts of winter, even if I postpone my wake up as long as possible, I'm still getting up in the dark if I want to be able to commute into work on time. There's no sunlight waking me up. > Do people gene…

cries in 62° N

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#366

Post by dagss »

lamontcg wrote: post #138
frotaur wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where there isn't work schedule and in general the whole of society's schedule which works around the arbitrary time, I agree with you.

So adjust the work schedule. If people want more time in the evening, get up earlier and go to work and go home earlier. You can even shift school/work schedules throughout the year.

Changing the time (zone) IS changing the work schedule. That is essentially what a time change IS. In the most expedient way possible.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#367

Post by sparrc »

wyre wrote: post #337
kmm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime people extoll the virtues of high noon, I ask the same question: why does it matter if the sun reaches it highest point near 12 o' clock? You're awake for 4-6 hours before 12, and you remain awake for 10-12 hours after it. Noon isn't the middle of the day for nearly anyone in the western world. I understand the argument for having an early sunset, clearly having sunlight when you're awake has an effect. But…

this might be controversial and a sign of growing up in America, but i think its a lot like people preferring Celsius over Fahrenheit. I don't care if water boils and freezes at exactly 100 and 0 degrees, it's easy to know its state by looking at it. But its very easy to understand what temp differences will feel like between 90, 70, 50 degrees F etc compared to 31, 22, and 4 degrees C.

As someone who grew up in America but lived abroad a few years, you just start using different markers but it's the same idea. Something like 0, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 gives you the full range from freezing to pleasant to very hot.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#368

Post by derektank »

ako wrote: post #336
pkulak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

It really depends on your interests: I use daylight for sports after work, really like being able to surf until 22:30 midsummer (52 degrees), so DST works for me. On the other hand, also don't mind the switching between wintertime and summertime, it's just like a minor jetlag we all have no problem with when going on holiday.

>it's just like a minor jetlag we all have no problem with when going on holiday.

I can only say speak for yourself, some of us have major problems with jet lag. Especially as someone on the west coast, I am exhausted any time I have to travel east for work

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#369

Post by dagss »

bluebarbet wrote: post #106

This question IMO reveals how the abstraction of numbers can imprison our minds. It literally makes no sense to say, "I prefer to have an extra hour in the evening" (the morning and evening will always have equal numbers of hours). Or "I hate it when it's dark at 5pm" (translation: "I hate when it's dark at 5 arbitrary periods after an arbitrary moment that may be hours either side of solar noon"). My solution: pick…

It just happens that all recurring scheduled events we use in society is encoded to happen at "$globalDailyOffset + $eventTime".

Then a democratic decision was made to change $globalDailyOffset, that being the most expedient way to change 100000 calendar entries at once.

Everyone is ofc still free to change $eventTime to compensate should if they want to and have the mandate.

I don't see the mind prison...

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#370

Post by lucumo »

rtpg wrote: post #326
Aerroon wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess northern Europe must be an unpopulated wasteland where everybody's health just instantly declines. I find these explanations to these studies so bizarre. We know that there are large populations living significantly further north, who don't get sunlight in the morning in winter, no matter whether there's DST or not. We also know that they get almost perpetual light during summer. If these explanations were tr…

I mean it's possible for there to be bad health effects from something without it outright killing everyone. This is why things like hygiene are tough! You can have terrible hygiene and still be alive for a long time. Perhaps if Sweden adopted a different policy it would have an even longer life expectancy!

> Perhaps if Sweden adopted a different policy it would have an even longer life expectancy!

The policy of being between 55 and 69 N? I'm not sure the world is ready for another viking age.

Joking aside, GPs point was that Sweden has long nights and long days. Based on the studies you'd expect life expectancy to be worse there than in more Southern parts, like most of Canada. It isn't.

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