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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#361

Post by WorldMaker »

burningChrome wrote: post #335
well_ackshually wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not actually much in Play Services. The biggest losses are fused location providers and notification services which you would consider core to the OS. Maps are a loss, but these are very clearly Google branded. Huawei provides HMS for example, a somewhat close feature wise set of APIs for their phones that are still on Android. They can even shim play services API, the same way microg does. If anything, what…

I think it always comes down to the apps. Windows phone died because of its lack of apps. Same thing with several other mobile OS's. Ubuntu has a really great OS and UI, but no apps for just basic things renders it useless to even the most basic of users like myself. I don't have games, no banking apps, a few email and Microsoft apps and yet I still couldn't find a way to make it work. One of the other technical limi…

Yeah, it somewhat doesn't matter how "easy" it is to use alternatives to Google Play Services, because Play Services is still a moat around a huge collection of existing apps today for Android that Play Services is "good enough" for and/or the only option "worth supporting".

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#362

Post by poulpy123 »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

It's not sustainable but it is better than the alternative. For the moment there is no alternative for a phone os that will start from zero

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#363

Post by littlestymaar »

ktm5j wrote: post #344
littlestymaar wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The further the Google Android kernel diverges from its last-open version Can it even diverge though? The kernel code is GPL so I don't think Google can close it down even if they wanted.

Yes it definitely can diverge while still staying open source. Happens in the Linux kernel for example whenever the ABI changes.

It can, and has in the past, diverged from the baseline Linux kernel, but not from “the last open Android kernel” as it must remain open source per GPL.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#364

Post by poulpy123 »

Taek wrote: post #259
integralid wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The cost of writing code has fallen 100x in the past 3 years Maybe, but the cost of actually shipping a product has fallen by maybe 10%. I don't see dozens of production ready mainstream OSes and web browsers popping up because LLM can dump tens of lines of code per second.

As a startup founder shipping product, I strongly disagree with that. Give it 12 months, you will see dozens of from-scratch large scale software projects shipping. New web browsers, new operating systems, new gaming engines, new productivity software, we are at the threshold of having an abundance of software that was previously only available from large corporations.

Lol

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#365

Post by TingPing »

poulpy123 wrote: post #362
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

It's not sustainable but it is better than the alternative. For the moment there is no alternative for a phone os that will start from zero

There are multiple Linux shells that work on mobile today… They could become usable with some investment.

The main issue is Android apps that require certified devices, which would also be a problem for truly stripped down Android.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#366

Post by toddsiegel »

nphardon wrote: post #282

I went *browserless on my device and it has solved my screen compulsion issues with very little downside. It has been the most effective step I've ever taken. I realized I really love msg'ing friends, having access to maps and navigation, banking, just a handful of apps (no google apps), and that all along it was the browser. *ios doesnt let you delete Safari so I set a 10 minute timer on it, and i dont have any adbl…

Web views still work?

I think that was part of Apple's rationale, that is was all coupled together. I assume that’s not the case here?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#367

Post by theK »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #325
theK wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My account has more comments than that and I share OC's opinion and experience. I've been daily driving /e/ since its FP3 era and lately the experience has been really well polished. Even things that had been "tricky" in the past, like Android auto integration, now work seamlessly.

So FP3 is shipped with the /e/ or you need to install it manually?

Murena have been selling Fairphones preinstalled with /e/ OS. I think right now its the FP6 and FP5 they do.

https://murena.com

Its not only Fairphones. I'd say they've got an interesting mix of tech there. I think they even sold refurbished pixels flashed with /e/ for a while.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#368

Post by jasonvorhe »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

I don't get what's so user-hostile about Android. Everything negative about the ecosystem is mostly Google Play and the legacy of every OEM forking Android for the better part of a decade. Sure, file pickers are inconsistent, filesystem is chaotic but it's performing quite well on most hardware, runs on phones, TVs, laptops, tablets and mini PCs and AOSP doesn't contain any hooks for Google to siphon off data. GrapheneOS isn't so much undoing evil Google stuff but extending upon their work and improving memory protection and adds security features that can be easily toggled based on assumed threat models of the user.

Google's ownership of Android is definitely headed towards user hostility though, I'm not arguing against that. But just the source that GrapheneOS is based off of doesn't contain too much stuff that shouldn't be there, to my knowledge.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#369

Post by wavemode »

vovavili wrote: post #290
wavemode wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very wide attack surface. Do you have details of specific realistic attacks that were possible under MV2 and now impossible under MV3?

A very quick Google search could have done the trick for you - https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...

That page contains a list of things you aren't allowed to do in MV3 anymore. There's no explanation of attacks being prevented.

In what specific ways are you safer when installing a malicious MV3 extension compared to installing a malicious MV2 extension?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#370

Post by Toto13 »

fransje26 wrote: post #102
fmo1973 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's due to the lack of WebUSB API support in Firefox, it is needed for the web installer, both for eOS and GrapheneOS

As I explained elsewhere in this post, I got to this installer page by clicking on "Check device compatibility" on the https://e.foundation/e-os/ page. So I was actually expecting a device listing page, not a WebUSB program.

yes it is a error on the website. it should link you to this page : https://doc.e.foundation/devices instead it links you to the web installer.
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