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Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

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Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#361
post #64

> The central promise—that distributed digital fabrication would bring manufacturing back to America, that every city would have micro-factories, that 3D printing would decentralize production—simply didn’t materialize. I never heard that. It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale, did it? Units per hour and dollars per unit was never its strength. It was…

> I never heard that. It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale, did it?

It absolutely was the "promise" the media spun.

I had the relatively unique experience of moving from being an outsider to this field to being an insider. While I was an outsider, my impressions, formed by the media, was exactly that—3d printing would be the next big revolution, in a few years there'd be a printer in every home, etc.

I then joined a company that allocated a lot of resources to 3d printing. It only took me a month or two to realize that the big media claims were absolutely ridiculous, and didn't make any sense as stated. They misunderstood the state of the technology, and misunderstood basic economics and how regular manufacturing works.

That's not to say there's no value in 3d printing or the maker movement. There's a ton of value that's been uncovered. But the specific media dream of "people will be printing their plates at home instead of buying them in the store" was never real.

(Btw, IMO "vibe coding" is absolutely real and revolutionary, likely the biggest revolution in the software industry since, idk, the invention of the computer itself. And AI more generally is, even beyond vibe coding aspect, a revolutionary technology that will change the world in many ways.)

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#362
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your framing cynicism as an "agenda". For the record, I agree that the maker movement hasn't actually ended, and most of your points are correct; however, the idea of LLMs teaching Electronics worries me about as much as people using LLMs to learn Chemistry. A little while ago I had to dissuade someone from learning Chemistry via an LLM, because the advice that they had been given by the LLM would hav…

I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I am not particularly interested in chemistry and ChatGPT has been extraordinarily helpful in demystifying electronics. Having 24/7 access to a patient person who can unpack the difference between TTL and CMOS logic or when you'd choose a buffer instead of a Schmitt trigger without belittling you for not already knowing what they know is awesome and not going to get anyon…

What are you doing with TTL logic in 2026, out of curiosity?

(I’m not saying it’s not used, but the only thing I’d use TTL for is building old circuits out of the Forrest Mims books.)

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's really dependent on the software. And frankly, with the current rate of development, I feel like this continues to shift. No, a non-engineer can't just spin up the next great app. Even with the newest models and a great prompting/testing system, I don't think you can just spit out high quality, maintainable, reliable code. But as a generalist - I'm absolutely able to ship software and tools that solve ou…

> No, a non-engineer can't just spin up the next great app. Even with the newest models and a great prompting/testing system, I don't think you can just spit out high quality, maintainable, reliable code I think most engineers vastly overestimate how important high quality, maintainable, reliable code is to product success. Yes, you need an experienced engineer to steer Claude into making good high-quality code. But…

> I think most engineers vastly overestimate how important high quality, maintainable, reliable code is to product success.

I agree, the only thing I can’t get past is the black box approach. For the majority of business stakeholders, they can’t/ don’t want to read the code that Opus, or any other agent produces. It will most likely work, but if it doesn’t, they have to rely on the agent to find & patch.

I’m with you though, it’s getting incredibly good at doing that, but that concept of “It works but I don’t know why” seems very dangerous at scale.

That last mile for apps isn’t trivial imo; to take them from “it’s cool and does exactly what I want”, to a scenario where all employees at our company can use it.

But who knows I might just be a naive dev lol, this stuff is changing too quickly.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Increases output but reduces understanding.

It doesn't have to reduce understanding. It completely depends on how you use it. See, for example, this study https://arxiv.org/html/2601.20245v2

Published by Anthropic. It's a bit like a "study" by Coca Cola "proving" that one can lose weight by just drink their product rather than doing sport. Sure, it's not impossible, but that's definitely not the normal usage.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#367
post #64

> The central promise—that distributed digital fabrication would bring manufacturing back to America, that every city would have micro-factories, that 3D printing would decentralize production—simply didn’t materialize. I never heard that. It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale, did it? Units per hour and dollars per unit was never its strength. It was…

>> BTW, I think a lot of people were/are greatly overestimating the value of coding to business success. It’s fungible from a macro perspective, so isn’t a moat by itself.

Broadly true if you have $10M to throw at it, and know exactly what you want, or if what you want isn't something involving a "secret sauce".

But between competing startups doing something novel, original software is a moat. No moat is permanent; you leverage it into market share while you have time.

And no software itself is a secret, but the business logic and real-world operations it distills and caters to may be. The software is the least obfuscated part of encoding that set of operational logic, or even trade secrets, which are the DNA of a business and dictate the tools it goes into battle with.

Software being a moat (which it rarely is for long) is more of a question for the software industry. For other industries, software that amplifies best practices and crystalizes operational flow from the business logic can absolutely extend whatever moat the company already has.

In the small bore, if you have two midsized competing $100m companies in some arbitrary industry, the one that uses SaaS may be well behind the one that invested $1m in their own in-house software from the beginning, mostly because the one with SaaS must work their business logic around certain shortcomings, while the other can devise and deploy workflows for employees that may themselves create a new advantage the other company hasn't considered.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because human-made code is risk-free. I suggest you actually look at a codebase of a proprietary device before forming a proper opinion.

>Yes, because human-made code is risk-free. If whataboutism is all you have, this conversation is over . > I suggest you actually look at a codebase of a proprietary device before forming a proper opinion You have no idea what codebases I've seen and worked in, so don't assume I have not. My opinions are well-formed.

>You have no idea what codebases I've seen and worked in, so don't assume I have not.

Why not? You've been quite confortable assuming things so far, without actually contributing anything of substance to the conversation. Your opinions may even be well-formed, but if they are, your communication skills clearly aren't.

So, how has been your experience using LLMs as a maker (the actual topic) or in the context of IoT development (the topic I was replying to)? Mine has been quite positive, ranging from ensuring specific blocks of assembly code are deterministic (instead of having to check dozens of pages in a manual, and count instructions at every adjustment), to building both code, test fixtures and build infrastructure, to generating documentation, to actually hunt and fix security and logic issues on older codebases.

When people read "vibecode" they assume a clueless intern operating Cursor without any idea of what he's doing (in part because of the overhype of misshaps of LLM-generated code), opposed to the old fox with decades of experience that knows every detail by heart. Thing is, the clueless intern will produce much better code with LLMs than without (and fewer defects, too), and the old fox will produce much more because it will delegate some tasks to coding agents instead of less senior team mates,and have results in hours, not weeks.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's really dependent on the software. And frankly, with the current rate of development, I feel like this continues to shift. No, a non-engineer can't just spin up the next great app. Even with the newest models and a great prompting/testing system, I don't think you can just spit out high quality, maintainable, reliable code. But as a generalist - I'm absolutely able to ship software and tools that solve ou…

> Right now, my company identified an expensive software platform that was set to cost us around $250k/year. A single engineer assigned to maintain your in-house solution will cost more than this.

A single engineer in urban America.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#370
Vibe coding is pretty much the total opposite of the maker movement. Vibe coding's appeal is in getting something for little or no effort by outsourcing the thinking bits to the cloud. The appeal of the maker movement is in getting something by building it yourself, and because you built it you understand and control how it functions.

If vibe coding ends, it will end because model collapse, diminishing returns, escalating costs as the VC money run out, etc. cause LLMs to fail to deliver the promised capacity to, per Dijkstra, "program if you cannot". There will be a culling as amateurs and dilettantes with no technical knowledge or interest lose interest in programming itself, and the field will collapse back into a niche. Amateurs and dilettantes crashed out early of the maker movement, if they got involved at all; "making" was for technically inclined people in the first place.

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