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Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

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361–370 of 408 posts

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#361

Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it. But, really, the article is a lot more useful to me if other people can access it too. Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unloc…

What if you did like The Guardian, but writ small, and just suggest how much the article is worth after a person read it. Often when I read something really good I have a bit of a high at the end of it, real gratitude for the writer(s) and others who put it together. I wouldn't mind if that feeling was monetized.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#362
This is a problem that I've been thinking on for years now.

It used to be common to just buy a newspaper without handing out any kind of personal information. Walk up to a newsagent/kiosk, hand over a small amount of money, and voila, you have your news.

Then came subscriptions. Great for publishers and advertisers: they have predictibility in how many papers to print, know exactly when and where to deliver them, and advertisers know exactly how many people their printed ads will reach. But it came at the cost of having to provide the paper (or their distributor, maybe your local paper boy) with your address and payment details.

Then came news sites. Initially entirely free because the web was new and no one knew what they were doing. Then with ads. Then with more and more intrusive ads, which started harvesting and stealing personal information against our wishes, which started being used to create highly specific profiles of people. To all the better serve more ads.

Then came paywalls. Where in order to read an article, you now have to go through to the ads/profiling spiel, AND on top of that you have to hand out your name/address/email/payment details just to read a single god damned article.

I would love for us to have a way to go back to the original situation. I give you money, and only money, you give me news. No name. No address. No ad profiling. Zilch.

But because of a fear of terrorists, anonymous payments on the interwebs are effectively impossible.

It's a sad state of affairs, really.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#363

Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it. But, really, the article is a lot more useful to me if other people can access it too. Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unloc…

> Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people.

So then only rich people get to decide what they make available for free to poor people.

I don't think this is adding anything new to the way the world already works.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#364
post #349

I've made a start-up that has really tried making micropayments work (blink.net) and I know there have been many other attempts. Some of the pain points can always be addressed, as it's just implementation difficulty (having an auto-pay system when opening and article, and actually being able to get a refund within a short time window if the title was clickbait -- with some limitations of course). The main problems t…

This is just off the cuff, but I could go for something sort of like a 'daily paper' deal where I get debited a couple bucks for access to the news papers site for a day, or maybe even just the materials published that day, but that sort of seems more complicated to implement.

Then, if I'm reading it so often that it would be more cost effective to just subscribe they can start pinging me about it.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#365
post #363

Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it. But, really, the article is a lot more useful to me if other people can access it too. Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unloc…

> Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. So then only rich people get to decide what they make available for free to poor people. I don't think this is adding anything new to the way the world already works.

That's how it works now. This way regular people have some say instead of no say.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#366
post #351

Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it. But, really, the article is a lot more useful to me if other people can access it too. Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unloc…

Wouldn't we just be reading what people like Musk would want us to read? Or content that makes either extreme of the political spectrum feel passionate? I fear it would drown out little truths and balanced opinions.

> Wouldn't we just be reading what people like Musk would want us to read?

What do you think happens now?

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#367
post #320
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point and good idea. Maybe something like the Kickstarter model, where you commit to paying something and it only gets deducted if enough people commit? You'd probably still want to read it straight away rather than wait so you'd pay a small amount for immediate access and commit an additional amount for public access if the threshold is reached. The public commitment could come at the bottom of the article, on…

Counterpoint, you'v just changed publishing incentives. If I write 10 public interest stories, but notice a particular topic is making me more $$, I'll focus in on that. You could end up with bad actors/PR management types promoting particular stories constantly or to detract from investigation they want less public.

That incentive already exists completely in ad-driven media.

At least this way, readers have a way to vote beyond just what happens to consume their attention and get their eyeballs on ads.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#368

Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it. But, really, the article is a lot more useful to me if other people can access it too. Since everyone can vote, I want the whole populace to be informed, even poor people. I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unloc…

> Let's say a journalist writes an excellent article about something political of serious import. I'm fine with paying for that article to get access to it.

Ignoring the millionaire angle of just paying for salaries, we sort of already have that. It's the algorithm of whatever platform a person is on. The net result is people focusing on things that get the most eyeballs.

The problem with your vision is literally what you are saying:

> I'm fine with paying for that article

Sure. But what about the one before that? And the one after that? Articles that don't meet your standards that you would say you are fine paying for.

It's like asking to pay a programmer per line of code that goes into the actual final build.

Unit tests? Nope. Integration tests? Nada. Comments? Nope. Documentation? Are users paying for it? No? No way!

This sounds ridiculous because it is.

And you already work this way. You lump stuff people don't care about with stuff people do care about and combine them.

It's the old joke about paying by the hour vs. by the project, and how you aren't paying for the 15 minutes of work it takes an expert to do something, but for the 20 years of experience that allow them to do it in 15 minutes.

> I wonder if there is a viable business model where for each article, readers can pay to unlock it not just for themselves, but for everyone. The price would obviously have to be higher since you aren't just buying it for yourself. But perhaps the sense of "I'm helping build a better-informed world and helping broadcast my values" would encourage people to pay that higher price.

I think that could work in a way. I think it's a bit more involved than just buying an article.

Back of the comment thinking here: you see an article you like, you buy a year subscription. This signals that sometimes articles take longer to write, that the person writing that article can't write good articles if they are stressed, and that they avoid having to only ever chase trends.

Then, by having that sub, you have votes. These are effectively "tipping" with your subscription. You don't pay more; you just signal that you want this article to be free. If enough people "tip" on this article, it goes free.

Does this work? I don't know. I feel like in this case, it's low enough to be feasible but not too low as to diminish the work. I think people who claim they are willing to pay for the article will show their true colors and balk at the price. Ignoring that the article is more than just the lines of text and the time it took to type it out.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be the wet blanket but what you're arguing for, advocacy, is by far the worst and most ineffective form of doing politics. Talking about things doesn't convince anyone. Talking to the small amounts of people that agree doesn't get the balling moving. Want to know what does? Organizing. Getting people that disagree with you, to agree with you. That never happens through advocacy, you have to organize.

Organizing is often less about convincing people that are in hard opposition and more about moving ppl that are pro, soft or uninformed. Then moving those people to take actions that advance the ball in their own interests or the interest of allies. You can really only move people that are hard against when the stakes are low and they have no ideological commitment against what you are suggesting. Getting someone to…

This isn't true in my experience as a party operator at all. You can easily move MAGA to progressive quite simply, do some deep canvassing but you'll find out that there are more agreements that people care about (healthcare costs, housing costs, poor salaries, poor retirement, decaying society) where you can build on top of.

Also what you're saying goes against the most effective union advice from people like Jane McAlevey that have successfully implemented strikes with >95% participation rates and getting workers effectively everything they ask for. Want to know how she is able to achieve this? She talks to those that people respect and follow in the workplace, often these people are at odds against you.

In her books she has given example after example on how she would convert people that were leading the anti-union efforts into being pro-union joining the cause.

Sorry man, just because your organizational skills are terrible doesn't me that there aren't real effective ways to do this.

Re: Micropayments as a reality check for news sites

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be the wet blanket but what you're arguing for, advocacy, is by far the worst and most ineffective form of doing politics. Talking about things doesn't convince anyone. Talking to the small amounts of people that agree doesn't get the balling moving. Want to know what does? Organizing. Getting people that disagree with you, to agree with you. That never happens through advocacy, you have to organize.

Organizing still requires access to ground truth information. It's not enough for people to be organized. They do need to be organized around actual good ideas which requires information. Organizing without journalism is just religious evangelism and mob justice.

No, this still doesn't matter. Just still waste of time of time caring about what journalists think over activating the local community into your cause.

Go read "No Shortcuts" by Jane McAlevey to understand what effective organizing is.

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