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I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

kirkville.com

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Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you block ALL ads. Starve the beast. If an app has ads, I do not use it, end of story.

Unfortunately the "beast" is the Internet content itself. Even HN itself is a massive ad. We are lured here with tech links so YC companies can fish in curated waters for workers. That is explicitly why this board is hosted. The real fix is paying money for everything, but as evidenced by the many attempts at this, no one actually wants to pay. People overwhelmingly want to block ads and backdoor subscriptions. For e…

Things need to be paid for but not everything needs to be paid for by everyone and most things are far cheaper than you'd expect. I played a MUD (and met my partner there!) for several years in college and afterwards. Initially I offered no financial support (since I was a starving college student) but when I had a job I sent in 10 bucks a month. That was a quarter of the cost to run a server, website and forum for about 120 people, we were generally overfunded but that was the cost of a wow subscription at the time and this was worth more to me.

Usually a few enthusiasts can just bear the lion's share of the cost to create the infrastructure for a community, excess can go to long term contingency funding and, in the unfortunate case that a community completely runs out of funds then it'll stop existing until people care enough to create a new one.

Video hosting and the like are dramatically more expensive but they can be reasonably subscription based (see Nebula and Dropout[2] neither of which have the VC backing to light piles of money on fire just to sustain a user base) but not everything needs such a high level of technology.

Heck, back in the day the majority of traffic that a website that was ad-driven needed to host was the ads - if you were half-decent at writing asset caching rules images became a non-issue that were usually handled by proxies/other intermediaries.

Everything costs money - but it's important to remember that a lot of services charge a lot more money than they cost to run and that ad money is a lot less money than most people realize[1].

1. A big exception to this being things like newspapers which really are in a hard place. Their expense isn't in hosting or other technical doodads (e.g. the NYT Crossword puzzle) - the subscription you're paying is to afford the huge team of reporters and editors that are needed to produce the information gathering and presentation.

2. Edited to add - Dropout is probably a terrible example here since it's a lot more like a newspaper, only a sliver of the cost is technical, most of it goes to the production team and talent they're retaining. But I'll leave it in there unedited.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#362

Apple News and News+ represent everything wrong with modern Apple: a ham-fisted approach to simplicity that ignores the end user. It is their most mediocre service, jarringly jamming cheap clickbait next to serious journalism in a layout that makes no sense. The technical execution is just as lazy. While some magazines are tailored, many are just flat, low-res PDFs that look terrible on the high-end Retina screens Ap…

I like using it to listen to narrated versions of New Yorker articles. Except I can’t tell it “I like narrated versions of New Yorker articles”. I can search by publisher, or I can browse narrated stories that are selected “for you” (none of which are of interest to me), but I can’t just search for “narrated stories AND New Yorker”. And when I do finally find one, if I don’t finish in one session, there is zero conte…

Remembering state is a giant oversight on many apps for content consumption, Apple News included. I sometimes read long articles on Apple News. I could be interrupted by a call or some messages. When I return to Apple News, it displays my half-finished article for a split second and returns to the home screen.

This is worse than using reading news on a browser. Browsers either don’t kill your tabs on its own (desktop browsers) or at least try to remember your scroll position. Even if it fails at doing that, it at least has a history feature. Apple News just makes your half-read articles disappear into the void.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should assume that all ads in general are scams. The noise to signal ratio is too large to care. Completely agree. > Word of mouth and maybe trusted communities like HN is the only way to reliably discover new things. There is no evidence that HN is not being actively astroturfed though. Sadly community filtering cannot replace trust in individuals.

Pre LLMs I would have said the all-text format of HN probably kept the astroturfing low, but these days I'm less sure. It's still a much less engaging format than almost any other place on the web, although again, with LLMs you can even cheaply target the lowest value returns.

Reddit is an all text (or mostly all text) community, and it is heavily astroturfed in many subreddits. It doesn't stop the astroturfing.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally if all the ads you see are scammy, it means you probably are using some form of tracking/privacy protection. When an ad network has a strong profile on you, legitimate companies pay good money for those ad slots. When they don't really know who you are, only bottom feeders bid on the ad slots you see. In a way, it almost acts as retribution for not submitting to the anti-privacy machine.

I'm pretty sure the only ad that would work on me would be an ad for an indie game, but indie game developers don't buy ads, they buy blue checkmarks on twitter then they try to game the algorithm. Even if I did see an ad for an indie game, I would probably not click on it, but just google its name instead. What I mean to say is that there is a type of person that will never click on an ad, even if they want to buy t…

This mythical world where you are 'immune' to ads doesn't exist. You are just as susceptible to ads as the next human.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#365
post #51

I don’t know if it is just a symptom of growing up during the days of the net’s Wild West and navigating through sites like gamecopyworld or what, but I just seem to have some inbuilt filter which doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of ads. It’s hard to explain but it is like some subconscious filtering that occurs on a preRecognise hook or something. Weird.

Possibly an instance of banner blindness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

Thank you! I’ve been searching for a term to describe this type of “ad blindness”.

I’ve also trained myself to recognize and not consume ads anywhere they are not blocked.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the only ad that would work on me would be an ad for an indie game, but indie game developers don't buy ads, they buy blue checkmarks on twitter then they try to game the algorithm. Even if I did see an ad for an indie game, I would probably not click on it, but just google its name instead. What I mean to say is that there is a type of person that will never click on an ad, even if they want to buy t…

This mythical world where you are 'immune' to ads doesn't exist. You are just as susceptible to ads as the next human.

But by what metrics?

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#367

Apple News and News+ represent everything wrong with modern Apple: a ham-fisted approach to simplicity that ignores the end user. It is their most mediocre service, jarringly jamming cheap clickbait next to serious journalism in a layout that makes no sense. The technical execution is just as lazy. While some magazines are tailored, many are just flat, low-res PDFs that look terrible on the high-end Retina screens Ap…

News is ham-fisted as much by news organizations themselves as much as it is Apple. They don't want to sell through the News+ subscriptions, they want to tease a few articles and then upsell you to their subscription.

News organizations have really become quite aggressive about negotiating these things now, I think in large part because Meta (aka Facebook at the time) screwed them badly when it stopped revenue sharing.

This leads to a situation where a product that actually could at least be good and serviceable is a mess. They don't see News+ as being a positive to their businesses to bundle it into the subscription.

edit: I'm open to hearing others on this. I am only pointing out both Apple and the publishers are at fault for varying aspects of why Apple News+ ends up being a mediocre product

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#368
That explains the incredibly attention-stealing animated knee joint ad I sometimes see on Apple News+.

On the other hand, the ads are usually static, the content on the page will stay put (unlike news sites on the regular web, where the paragraph I am reading will shift up or down and often will get completely jettisoned out of the viewport), there are no pop-ups, and the page has never scrolled back up to the top while I was already half-way down the article.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#369
post #120
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s horrible on mobile. Sites like macobserver are bad. Two videos overlapping, popping in and out, shifting content.

There are really good ad blockers on mobile these days. I use AdGuard for Safari and it's as good as uBlock on desktop Firefox. I left my iPad deliberately unfiltered to discourage browsing - it's a bedroom device - and it's ridiculously effective. I see a cookie banner with the "legitimate interest" nonsense and I give up.

There is uBlock Origin Lite for Safari: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ublock-origin-lite/id674534269...

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I never us a phone that requires me to have certain apps installed.

You can uninstall almost all of Apple's apps now. Even things like the clock and the calendar. Not sure why the parent chose to leave News installed.

It can't be uninstalled on Sonoma I am using.
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