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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

keck.usc.edu

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#361

Post by formerly_proven »

torginus wrote: post #280
dzhiurgis wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing It’s crazy. How do we even allow selling cars without HEPA filters.

HEPA filters stop dust particles and not those tiny organic molecules that cause the smells. Filters for these exist as well, usually used in respirators, but those need to be exchanged pretty frequently and are not cheap.

Activated charcoal filters are a common option even out of the factory, and I’d be surprised if there were a car you can’t get them aftermarket. They don’t last that long but honestly I’d recommend swapping the cabin filter yearly anyway.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#362

Post by stephenr »

sagarm wrote: post #306
stephenr wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backup cameras are an enormous safety improvement. You know that a backup camera can be added to practically any car right? My ~2002 Toyota has a Pioneer deck from around 2007 (I guess?) that supports reversing camera input. My wifes 2012 Toyota hybrid has a reversing camera using some POS cheap Chinese deck that's so shit it doesn't even support Bluetooth audio. No part of reversing cameras are dependent on any of t…

I responded to a comment about screens.

You don't need 'dual 12.3" touch screens' for a reversing camera.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#363

Post by itsprobablyok »

dijit wrote: post #282
ako wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't think the free market will force manufactures to compete on better batteries? I always thought the benefit of the free market was that it forced companies to compete on product quality... /s

To be honest with you, the free market does work when incentives are aligned. If you get maximum profit from the maximum social good, people will do that (or find a way to cheat); but as it stands, theres money to be made in not doing this and the consumer won’t care too much if its 9 years or 10 years that their car lasts, so its not hurting sales to not fix this (even if fixed perfectly, it would take 10 years to p…

>The anti-EV propaganda already works pretty well

Is that why EV sales have absolutely sky rocketed?

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#364

Post by formerly_proven »

realityking wrote: post #295
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they stop checking cars after a certain year. Like, if you are driving a 1980 Buick, they won’t make you scrap it because it’s emission tech is way out of date.

I can only speak about Germany. Here the technical safety and exhaust check are mandatory every two years. The exhaust check is relative to what the manufacturer specified when they first started selling the car. No one is getting their car taken away because technology improved but you can‘t let your car degrade (or modify it) so it becomes more dirty.

Oldtimers are still excluded from all emissions checks.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#365

Post by Braxton1980 »

lostlogin wrote: post #209
Braxton1980 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many car enthusiasts remove the catalytic converter for a combination of additional power and/or better sound. It has a massive impact on emissions and what you might be smelling is hydrogen sulfide which is normally converted to sulfur dioxide which is orderless. I should note the power increase may not have a major impact on newer cars where the cat has been optimized to reduce it's negative power impact. Infact a…

> Infact a popular tuner company, APR, that provides flashes tested the recent Volkswagen GTI and R generation with their most common tune and determined that with their tune removing the cat had a nominal impact. Do you mean minimal impact?

Yes. I made a mistake in how I worded that. They are able to tune to other bottlenecks in the car while keeping the cat.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#366

Post by rcxdude »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #333
decimalenough wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single survey that I'm aware has concluded that by any measure EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICEs. The only caveat is that the "startup" footprint of an EV is higher (because batteries), but the ongoing cost is far lower, even with polluting electricity sources like coal, because it's still way more efficient to burn coal in a proper power plant than it is to ship around gasoline and burn it badly…

[flagged]

Just say the substantive part. The warmup has already reduced the impact, not helped.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#367

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #261
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

> I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to come. for this to happen the EVs depreciation needs to drastically improve compared to ICE. I don't see this. On top of this EVs tend to push ideas from Software/Tech companies, such as recurring revenues (because the underlying technology lends itself to it better). Personally I'm unsure that this will be accepted by all consume…

> For this to happen the EVs depreciation needs to drastically improve compared to ICE.

Define "improve" ?

One way for "ICE cars completely become a thing of the past" is for there to be lots of cheap, reliable, second-hand EVs. If you can buy a good used EV for less then yes, a barrier to quitting ICE cars has been removed.

That's an improvement. The car doesn't have to be an asset, it could be more like a utility.

EV depreciation seems to be driven by

1) rapidly advancing state of the art, which should eventually stabilise and

2) Fears of battery lifespan, which in current vehicles is largely unfounded

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-could-last-much-lo...

https://insideevs.com/news/763231/ev-battery-degradation-lif...

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#368

Post by sagacity »

luckys wrote: post #360
raducu wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> notice is that there's always been oscillations There's always been oscilations, true, but the rate o change and trend on those oscilations is the real issue.

Happy to be shown where I can learn more about this different rate of change and trend which sets our current climate change apart from the rest of Earth's history.

It seems like you won't have any trouble finding that yourself if you really wanted to. This "I'm just asking questions" mode you're in can be considered a type of trolling called "sealioning".

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#369

Post by jwr »

memen wrote: post #273
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

Is that true? EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation. EVs are typically way heavier than similar ICE due to the batteries and combined with the higher torques, tires wear faster.

> EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation

I find those claims highly suspect: I own an EV and haven't had to change the tires more often than I did on a gasoline-powered car. My EV bought in 2021 still runs on original tires and they're fine (although I do change from winter to summer tires, so that's 2 sets technically).

I suspect black PR, and there is always a grain of truth in black PR: emissions are indeed likely to be higher. Probably not "much higher" and probably not in a way that really matters.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#370

Post by rcxdude »

luckys wrote: post #360
raducu wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> notice is that there's always been oscillations There's always been oscilations, true, but the rate o change and trend on those oscilations is the real issue.

Happy to be shown where I can learn more about this different rate of change and trend which sets our current climate change apart from the rest of Earth's history.

Almost anywhere where the measurements behind climate science is being discussed. Just pay attention to the x axis on the plots.
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