And we're cooked.
Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
361–370 of 853 posts
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#362Rust in the kernel is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#363> Mike: rachel and i are no longer dating > > rachel: mike that's a horrible way of telling people we're married from the meme section on that page.
I was confused but then noticed the actual headline of the submitted page: "The end of the kernel Rust experiment"
Kind of tells you something about how timidly and/or begrudgingly it’s been accepted.
IMO the attitude is warranted. There is no good that comes from having higher-level code than necessary at the kernel level. The dispute is whether the kernel needs to be more modern, but it should be about what is the best tool for the job. Forget the bells-and-whistles and answer this: does the use of Rust generate a result that is more performant and more efficient than the best result using C?
This isn’t about what people want to use because it’s a nice language for writing applications. The kernel is about making things work with minimum overhead.
By analogy, the Linux kernel historically has been a small shop mentored by a fine woodworker. Microsoft historically has been a corporation with a get-it-done attitude. Now we’re saying Linux should be a “let’s see what the group thinks- no they don’t like your old ways, and you don’t have the energy anymore to manage this” shop, which is sad, but that is the story everywhere now. This isn’t some 20th century revolution where hippies eating apples and doing drugs are creating video games and graphical operating systems, it’s just abandoning old ways because they don’t like them and think the new ways are good enough and are easier to manage and invite more people in than the old ways. That’s Microsoft creep.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Commercial embedded OSes, game consoles, for example.
Seems like game consoles for example has been accomplished by at least one dedicated team even if the vendor nor upstream provide official support: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/78bowa/hey_this_is_ky... I’m sure if Rust becomes more popular in the game dev community, game consoles support will be a solved problem since these consoles are generally just running stock PC architectures with a normal OS and ther…
> Switch
Good luck shipping arbitrary binaries to this target. The most productive way for an indie to ship to Nintendo in 2025 is to create the game Unity and build via the special Nintendo version of the toolchain.
How long do we think it would take to fully penetrate all of these pipeline stages with rust? Particularly Nintendo, who famously adopts the latest technology trends on day 1. Do we think it's even worthwhile to create, locate, awaken and then fight this dragon? C# with incremental GC seems to be more than sufficient for a vast majority of titles today.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#365By the way, M$$$ has already making the transition of its driver writing in Rust
https://github.com/microsoft/windows-drivers-rs
maybe this will be good for the rest of the kernels, IllumOS/HaikuOS/ReactOS.
maybe
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh I agree the survey has issues, I was just thinking about how each year the stats get more questionable! I just think it shows that interest in Rust doesn't come only from people with a C++ codebase to rewrite. Half of all devs have got less than five years of experience with any toolchain at all, let alone C++, yet many want to give Rust a try. I do think there will be a generational split there. > Steve Klabnik?…
[flagged]
Okay I had upvoted you but now you're just being an asshole. Predictable from someone on multiple fucking throwaways created just to answer on a single post and crap on a piece of tech I suppose; I don't even care much about Rust. And I'm sorry to inform you I'm not Klabnik, but delusions are free: Maybe you think everyone using -nik is actually the same person and you've uncovered a conspiracy. Congrats on that.
I'd shove you a better data point but people aren't taking enough surveys for our sake, that's the one we've got. Unless you want to go with Jetbrains', which, spoilers, skews towards technologies supported by Jetbrains; I'm not aware of other major ones.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
wasn't there like a drive by maintainer rejection of something rust related that kind of disrupted the asahi project ? i can't say i followed the developments much but i do recall it being some of that classic linux kernel on broadway theater. i also wonder if that was a first domino falling of sorts for asahi, i legitimately can't tell if that project lives on anymore
IIRC, it was not about Rust vs. C, but a commotion rooted from patch quality and not pushing people around about things. Linux Kernel team has this habit of a forceful pushback which breaks souls and hearts when prodded too much. Looks like Hector has deleted his Mastodon account, so I can't look back what he said exactly. Oh, I still have the relevant tab open. It's about code quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/i…
That was a single message in a very large thread. It absolutely was not just about code quality.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#368This is great because it means someday (possibly soon) Linux development will slowly grind to a halt and become unmaintainable, so we can start from scratch and write a new kernel.
Or you can take this as a sign that the linux kernel adapts modern programming languages so that more programmers can contribute :)
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#369Does this mean that all architectures that Linux supports but Rust doesn't are straight in the bin?
Yes. Cooked.
Re: Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of C's popularity is with how standard and simple it is. I doubt Rust will be the safe language of the future, simply because of its complexity. The true future of "safe" software is already here, JavaScript. There will be small niches leftover: * Embedded - This will always be C. No memory allocation means no Rust benefits. Rust is also too complex for smaller systems to write compilers. * OS / Kernel - Nearly…
> Embedded - This will always be C. No memory allocation means no Rust benefits. Rust is also too complex for smaller systems to write compilers. Embedded Dev here and I can report that Rust has been more and more of a topic for me. I'm actually using it over C or C++ in a bare metal application. And I don't get where the no allocation -> no benefit thing comes from, Rust gives you much more to work with on bare meta…
In robotics too.