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IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

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Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#361
Nobody really knows the future. What were originally consumer graphics expansion cards turned out useful in delivering more compute than traditional CPUs.

Now that compute is being used for transformers and machine learning, but we really don't know what it'll be used for in 10 years.

It might all be for naught, or maybe transformers will become more useful, or maybe something else.

'no way' is very absolute. Unlikely, perhaps.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than that. The equipment is depreciated on a 5 year schedule on the company balance sheet. It actually costs nothing to discard it.

There’s no marginal tax impact of discarding it or not after 5 years - if it was still net useful to keep it powered, they would keep it. Depreciation doesn’t demand you dispose of or sell the item to see the tax benefit.

No but it tips the scales. If the new hardware is a little more efficient, but perhaps not so much so that you would necessarily replace it, the ability to appreciate the new stuff, but not the old stuff might tip your decision

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#363

A decade ago, IBM was spending enormous amounts of money to tell me stuff like "cognitive finance is here" in big screen-hogging ads on nytimes.com. They were advertising Watson, vaporware which no one talks about today. Are they bitter that someone else has actually made the AI hype take off?

Has it really taken off? Where's the economic impact that isn't investor money being burned or data center capex?

It's good we are building all this excess capacity which will be used for applications in other fields or research or open up new fields.

I think the dilemma I see with building so much data centers so fast is exactly like whether I should buy latest iPhone now or should wait few years when the specs or form factor improves later on. The thing is we have proven tech with current AI models so waiting for better tech to develop on small scale before scaling up is a bad strategy.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#364

A decade ago, IBM was spending enormous amounts of money to tell me stuff like "cognitive finance is here" in big screen-hogging ads on nytimes.com. They were advertising Watson, vaporware which no one talks about today. Are they bitter that someone else has actually made the AI hype take off?

> Are they bitter that someone else has actually made the AI hype take off?

Or they recognize that you may get an ROI on a (e.g.) $10M CapEx expenditure but not on a $100M or $1000M/$1B expenditure.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#365
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes it suspect when combined with the obvious incentive to make the fact that IBM is basically non-existent in the AI space look like an intentional, sagacious choice to investors. It very may well be, but CEOs are fantastically unreliable narrators.

You expect somebody to be heavily invested currently and also completely openly pessimistic about it?

No, I don’t trust a word Sundar or Satya say about AI either. CEOs should be hyping anything they’re invested in, it’s literally their job. But convincing investors that every thing they don’t invest in heavily is worthless garbage is effectively part of their job too.

What is more convincing is when someone invests heavily (and is involved heavily) and then decides to stop sending good money after bad (in their estimation). Not that they’re automatically right, but is at least pay attention to their rationales. You learn very little about the real world by listening to the most motivated reasoner’s nearly fact-free bloviation.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xerox was also famously early with a lot of things but failed to create proper products out of it. Google falls somewhere in the middle. They have great R&D but just can’t make products. It took OpenAI to show them how to do it, and the managed to catch up fast .

"They have great R&D but just can’t make products" Is this just something you repeat without thinking? It seems to be a popular sentiment here on Hacker News, but really makes no sense if you think about it. Products: Search, Gmail, Chrome, Android, Maps, Youtube, Workspace (Drive, Docs, Sheets, Calendar, Meet), Photos, Play Store, Chromebook, Pixel ... not to mention Cloud, Waymo, and Gemini ... So many widely adopt…

Those are all free products, some of them are pretty good. But free is the best business strategy to get a product to the top of the market. Are others better, are you willing to spend money to find out? Clearly, most people are not interested. The fact that they can destroy the market for many different types of software by giving it away and still stay profitable is amazing. But that's all they are doing. If they started charging for everything there would be better competition and innovation. You could move a whole lot of okay-but-not-great cars, top every market segment you want, if you gave them away for free. Only enthusiasts would remain to pay for slightly more interesting and specific features. Literally no business model can survive when their primary product is competing with good-enough free products.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#367
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking forward to buying my own slightly used 5 million square ft data centre in Texas for $1

In TX? In Russian blogosphere it is a standard staple that Trump is rushing Ukrainian peace deal to be able to move on to the set of mega-projects with Russia - oil/gas in Arctic and data centers in Russian North-West where electricity and cooling is plentiful and cheap.

Build trillion dollar data center infrastructure in Russia. What could possibly go wrong?

Ask the owners of the leased airplanes who have been unsuccessfully trying to get their planes back for about 3 years.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#368

A decade ago, IBM was spending enormous amounts of money to tell me stuff like "cognitive finance is here" in big screen-hogging ads on nytimes.com. They were advertising Watson, vaporware which no one talks about today. Are they bitter that someone else has actually made the AI hype take off?

I see Watson stuff at work. It’s not a direct to consumer product, like ChatGPT, but I see it being used in the enterprise, at least where I’m at. IBM gave up on consumer products a long time ago.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t wait for all this cheap ddr5 memory and GPUs

I was looking at my Newegg orders recently. 7/18/2023 - 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) --> $260. Now, $750+.

Holy cow. I have 96GB of DDR5 I bought at start of year for a machine which never materialized. Might have to flip it.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#370
post #275

A decade ago, IBM was spending enormous amounts of money to tell me stuff like "cognitive finance is here" in big screen-hogging ads on nytimes.com. They were advertising Watson, vaporware which no one talks about today. Are they bitter that someone else has actually made the AI hype take off?

I don't know that I'd trust IBM when they are pitching their own stuff. But if anybody has experience with the difficulty of making money off of cutting-edge technology, it's IBM. They were early to AI, early to cloud computing, etc. And yet they failed to capture market share and grow revenues sufficiently in those areas. Cool tech demos (like the Watson Jeopardy) mimic some AI demos today (6-second videos). Yeah, i…

They were selling software as a service in the IBM 360 days. Relabeling a concept and buying Redhat don't count as investments.
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