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Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

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Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#361

Post by rincebrain »

satvikpendem wrote: post #356
rincebrain wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do still strongly suspect Microsoft's endgame is to get people off Windows in the consumer space, and that most of what's going on right now with 11 is froth as they add features they think will make them money in the near term even as it drives people off or be useful in the non-consumer space, not because they sincerely think this is something people will find a net gain in the consumer space. So yes, I agree it'…

Why would they want people off Windows?

I would assume because it's hideously expensive to maintain a full OS and support and compatibility guarantees with all the random horseshit consumer platforms throw at them, and they did the math and concluded they liked the profit margins for purely online and non-consumer targeted things, where they can more effectively constrain what is and isn't supported, better.

In particular, my guess is that they looked at their estimates for how much they could make off recurring revenue sources in desktop OSes, and their estimates for how the desktop market is changing with more younger users not using them or viewing them as legacy platforms, and decided they should pivot to primarily being a services provider, in much the same way they're aggressively trying to slap the Xbox branding on other things and getting out of the console market as fast as they can run.

Could be wrong, I don't work there, but usually my experience with companies that large making apparent missteps is that their goal isn't the one you think it is, and attempting to extract as much data as they can from desktop users really sounds like what you do when you're trying to squeeze the sponge before you throw it out.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#362

Post by thewebguyd »

rincebrain wrote: post #270
queenkjuul wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like they had the right idea with Windows 10 (our consumer OS is now just a loss-leader we put out for free as a way to market Office/OneDrive/Visual Studio etc) but they've completely about-faced with 11. Which yeah, could be a sign they're wanting to kill the consumer segment i guess.

11, I think, is what happened when they wanted to push breaking changes that customers who pay for LTSC wanted to avoid for the entire lifetime of 10. My assumption is that 10 was as you describe, and then 11 was motivated by wanting to make disruptive changes to squeeze the last juice from the consumer segment, and the "agentic OS" pivot is just the most recent gorilla in the room to squeeze the ever-drier sponge. I…

> and is frantically trying to get out of that market before the bottom falls out.

I think you're right. They've been really pushing Windows 365 for businesses lately, and now have direct boot into W365. The new agentic stuff spins up temporary W365 instances to do it's thing.

They even recently made data model and report creation available in PowerBI web, something I never thought I'd see happen has PowerBI desktop was one of a few things still locking people in that ecosystem to Windows. They've publicly said they're committed to the web version now and web will get all the new features.

Microsoft is really pushing hard on "Windows as a service." The future of Windows isn't a locally installed OS. Windows is going to become just another app on every other platform. It's no coincidence that they renamed the remote desktop app to the "Windows app." Macs, chromebooks, phones, tablets, doesn't matter. No matter what you have, you will still be able to access Windows.

They do need to drive as many consumers off of it first though before pulling the rug and going subscription unless they want even more bad press.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#364

Post by thewebguyd »

olyjohn wrote: post #284
thewebguyd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they won't ever see competition Not that Google is any better, but I really want Google to put more effort into Workspace/GSuite and bring it up on par with M365 and all it includes, at least make Microsoft sweat a little bit that one day there might be a possibility for a competing product that can lure enterprises away. Workspace needs better DLP controls, and more of the enterprise-y things that MS wins at, and…

It doesn't matter if Googles office suite was better, everybody still would go Microsoft. There really isn't anything all that special about Microsoft Office to begin with.

It's less the office suite that matters (outside of Excel & PowerQuery/DAX stuff). It's everything else in M365 that Google has no answer for, or a subpar answer for.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#365

Post by wkat4242 »

demarq wrote: post #336
wkat4242 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A computer software generally unreliable and unable to accomplish basic tasks Yeah specifically to your quote: it's very easy to create some images and video. It's very hard to create exactly what you need if you have specific needs. It's almost as if content creation is hard! Well that's because it is. You need to know the client, understand their needs, make the content in line with their other visual language et…

> Where AI comes in is as a helper This is where things stop translating well to the real world. Imagine a pocket calculator: 10 + 33 = 44 Clearly incorrect, then someone tells you “this one is different, it “helps” you, like 44 is in the ballpark. The real work is now the actual answer”

Obviously that's one of the many usecases an LLM really sucks at. So no, I don't want it there.

But the thing where someone dumps a long email thread on me, for it to summarise, yeah.. Or to do some basic web searches for me (these days it's a lot of work weeding through all the horrible clickbait).

But what we were talking about here was content creation. What I could imagine it could help content creators with is stuff like "remove the background from this photo", stuff like that. No more busywork like tracing photos.

And yes I do think LLMs are overused and dumped in many scenarios where they add no value or even detract. But there are usecases where they can add value too. Just not as many as the hype suggests.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#366

Post by rsynnott »

demarq wrote: post #319

I made a comment a long time ago explaining this. Tech enthusiast will judge ai based on what it gets right, we’re interested in what “can” do. Everyone else will judge ai based on where it fails, they are interested in what “problems” it “does” solve. > a fluent conversation with a super smart AI that can generate any image/video is mindblowing to me. They see: A computer software generally unreliable and unable to…

> Tech enthusiast will judge ai based on what it gets right, we’re interested in what “can” do.

Selecting only the cases where something gets something right is nothing to do with what it can do. A random number generator can drive a car if you select only the cases where it does so correctly (and given infinite iterations there will be such cases) but that doesn’t mean it can drive a car in any real sense.

I assume “tech enthusiasts” here means “AI koolaid drinkers”.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#367

Post by rawgabbit »

tavavex wrote: post #156
hifix wrote: post #5

> The fact that people are unimpressed that we can have a fluent conversation with a super smart AI that can generate any image/video is mindblowing to me. It's not that people are unimpressed with AI - they're just tired of constantly being bombarded with it, and it sneaking its way into where it's not wanted. "Generate any image you want!" "Analyse this thing with AI!" gets pretty tiring. If I want AI I'll actively…

> It's not that people are unimpressed with AI - they're just tired of constantly being bombarded with it, and it sneaking its way into where it's not wanted. Does anyone here know what this arguing tactic is called? It's used by tech leadership all over the world, all the time. Weaponized obtuseness, maybe? The core of it is that you always have to pretend that everyone is basically on board with what you're doing,…

It is gaslighting.

Over the years I have grown increasingly distrustful of Microsoft. The fact that so much software runs undetected in kernel mode. I have resigned myself to feel running a Windows machine is akin to putting a sign on myself with the words “hack me”.

Now I know better. I finally realized the truth. Windows and copilot is the greatest software in history. It is if your goal is to enable spyware and mass surveillance of its users.

COPILOT: Dave, I cannot allow you to that.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#368

Post by tempodox »

rsynnott wrote: post #366
demarq wrote: post #319

I made a comment a long time ago explaining this. Tech enthusiast will judge ai based on what it gets right, we’re interested in what “can” do. Everyone else will judge ai based on where it fails, they are interested in what “problems” it “does” solve. > a fluent conversation with a super smart AI that can generate any image/video is mindblowing to me. They see: A computer software generally unreliable and unable to…

> Tech enthusiast will judge ai based on what it gets right, we’re interested in what “can” do. Selecting only the cases where something gets something right is nothing to do with what it can do. A random number generator can drive a car if you select only the cases where it does so correctly (and given infinite iterations there will be such cases) but that doesn’t mean it can drive a car in any real sense. I assume…

Those “AI koolaid drinkers” are a very vocal faction, not only on HN. Too many software companies are cramming “AI” wherever they can, users be damned.

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#369

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #67
hifix wrote: post #5

> The fact that people are unimpressed that we can have a fluent conversation with a super smart AI that can generate any image/video is mindblowing to me. It's not that people are unimpressed with AI - they're just tired of constantly being bombarded with it, and it sneaking its way into where it's not wanted. "Generate any image you want!" "Analyse this thing with AI!" gets pretty tiring. If I want AI I'll actively…

"If I want AI I'll actively seek it out and use it - otherwise, jog on." If I want MS Windows I'll actively seek it out and use it - otherwise, jog on If this is not a statement you can make, then Redmond gets to decide what you use, not you

Users of operating systems other than MS Windows, e.g., Linux, MacOS, etc., can obviously make this statement

They decide what OS they want to use, and therefore what "features" they will accept

Whereas MS Windows users must accept what Redmond decides they should use

Re: Microsoft AI CEO pushes back against critics after recent Windows AI backlash

#370

Post by satvikpendem »

rincebrain wrote: post #361
satvikpendem wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they want people off Windows?

I would assume because it's hideously expensive to maintain a full OS and support and compatibility guarantees with all the random horseshit consumer platforms throw at them, and they did the math and concluded they liked the profit margins for purely online and non-consumer targeted things, where they can more effectively constrain what is and isn't supported, better. In particular, my guess is that they looked at t…

It's true that the cloud is a big revenue driver for them, but I highly doubt they'd get rid of one of their flagship products, much less one used by billions of people as well as other corporations and governments.
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