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Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

urlahmed.com

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Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#361

Post by r_lee »

thomascountz wrote: post #278

As a high schooler in 2008, I watched my family struggle. Pay cuts, temporary furloughs, and constant stress became normal. The same for my friends and their families. The vestiges of 90s excess and advancement were over. At that time I realized my American Dream of becoming an engineer was just that: a dream. A shared illusion we all propped up until we couldn't. So, I turned down engineering schools, took a year of…

And it's incredible to see people here say that it's just a "skill issue" or whatever, sitting on "young people".

Like do we want the population to grow or not? Which one is it?

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#362

Post by GOD_Over_Djinn »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #58
margorczynski wrote: post #8

The most baffling thing is that even now the H1Bs, etc. are still pouring in. How can you say there is a shortage of IT talent and you need to import them where most grads can't find any work?

A new grad is not necessarily the same as a potential H1B hire. Tech workers are not fungible. A company might prefer to hire an Indian or Polish person who has won ICPC, has hard-to-acquire experience, etc. over a D-average new grad without internships from Georgia or something.

Do you live in the same reality as the rest of us? Most h1bs are not competitive programming champions, they are totally average in every way

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#363

Post by ghaff »

brailsafe wrote: post #180
ghaff wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI may actually change everything but I suspect things are cyclical to at least some degree. The $400K jobs may dry up for most--and certainly having two or more those jobs at the same time will--especially for people without degrees or degrees from no-name colleges or boot camps. It may be reasonable to expect CS/programming jobs will become more like lots of other STEM degrees in terms of requirements and comp. Whi…

> The $400K jobs may dry up for most Pretty sure $400k was not on the table for anyone but a tiny minority

True. But a lot of folks looked at the high flying numbers and optimistically thought they could be part of that tiny minority.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#364

Post by GOD_Over_Djinn »

GianFabien wrote: post #2

When you look beyond office jobs, you see many real opportunities. For example, there is a housing crisis. Not enough trades persons, building supplies, capital to solve that problem. The unemployment statistics aren't detailed enough to show IBM, MS, Facebook, Amazon, etc laying off tens of thousands of employees a year, each. Last I read, over 500,000 staff have been laid off in the past couple of years.

> For example, there is a housing crisis. Not enough trades persons, building supplies, capital to solve that problem.

That has pretty much nothing to do with available supply of materials or labor. It has everything to do with burdensome zoning and permitting processes.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#365

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #138

I always feel a bit conflicted when I read these experience from new grads: on the one hand, there's no question the job market today is not the one they signed up for; on the other, the expectation of recent grads is completely alien to me as someone who entered the job market in the shadow of the dotcom bust. The biggest thing that seems foreign to me is the expectation that "I'm a fit for the job, I should therefo…

I think this expectation of getting a job when you meet criteria no matter what is a result of them being new grads - that's what happens in classes or exams, you do not compete with others, you just do your thing.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#366

Post by futurecat »

urlahmed wrote: post #175

Hey all, OP here (author of the blog post, someone else submitted it ). I wrote this a few days ago mostly out of frustration and honestly did not expect it to go anywhere. It is pretty surreal to wake up and see it on HN with so much discussion. Thank you for reading and for all the comments, messages, and thoughtful critiques. I am currently looking for roles that sit at the intersection of ML, product, and researc…

Reading this, I was thinking all along that the job you are searching for isn’t the one you are built for. Amazing writing and analysis. Kudos!

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#367

Post by cube00 »

lisbbb wrote: post #184
cube00 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company had an onshore hiring freeze, while still hiring offshore. C-suite had the nerve in an all hands to say they were expanding offshore because there was a "local talent shortage", all while an onshore hiring freeze was still in effect. This wasn't even a secret; in our stand ups our immediate manager said that they were blocked from hiring onshore and only had offshore quota available if they wanted any more…

The MBA pyschopaths have always had it in for the far more intelligent and ethics driven CS types. It's always been an envy situation where people lacking talent are envious of those with real talents and real brain power. CS people should not allow themselves to be managed by non-CS people, much like how physicians used to operate. Everyone thinks socialism or communism is going to fix things, but those were already…

> CS people should not allow themselves to be managed by non-CS people

It's no guarantee, I've had a few terrible managers that I assumed were non-technical but was shocked to learn they actually had IT degrees from decades ago.

They just checked out for some reason and would jump from meetings the minute they got even vaguely technical.

"I'll leave that to the engineers as we're self organising, I've got to head off" which left us to run by consensus which slowed everything down.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#368

Post by ghaff »

harvey9 wrote: post #268
lisbbb wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to be a way to limit the flood--someone has to pay a fee someplace.

Maybe only accept applications by post.

Though honestly 40 years ago, sending out hundreds of cookie cutter applications by post wasn’t that hard.

I do agree that once someone gets through an initial filter and screen they should be willing to meet in person. That has costs on both sides but, during the tech boom, one heard a lot of complaints by applicants that they’re no going to travel for interviews, dinner, etc.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#369

Post by ericpauley »

knappe wrote: post #203
ericpauley wrote: post #176

My two cents: As someone who is actively hiring and looking at a lot of résumés from fresh grads (albeit looking for more systems programming experience), I would personally not move forward with an interview for this CV. Red flags for me: * Talks a big talk on AI but it’s inscrutable if any of it goes beyond “I installed PyTorch and ran example code/prompted an API” * Multiple projects but from demos it’s very uncle…

>I’d say under 10% of junior résumés I look at give me confidence that they’d show up and know how to write real systems instead of just gluing things together They're juniors . With that kind of mentality, I'm not sure you're looking for juniors, but instead are looking for someone with a few years in industry that is apparently masquerading as a junior. But perhaps my expectation of "real systems" is different than…

Indeed, real systems is a lower bar than you imply. In this case it’s unclear from the CV that I’d be getting someone that has ever written more than a 50 line one-off Python script.

You mention mentoring people in undergrad. Sure, by a year-3 course I’d expect to have to coach beyond basic understanding. To say that basic understanding of performance optimization is out of scope for a BS graduate is not supported by my experience, however. We’re not talking about boot camp grads here.

Re: Work after work: Notes from an unemployed new grad watching the job market break

#370

Post by selimthegrim »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #230
selimthegrim wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question, it’s taken me about two straight years, but I think I’m finally getting somewhere. I didn’t get any interviews between June 2022 and April 2024, and then another year long gap until this April not counting an internship interview.

How did you survive?

Menial jobs because my stipend ran out. Although a couple instructorships are on the horizon.
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