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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

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361–370 of 397 posts

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#361

Serious question. Not trolling. What happened to Elon Musk taking over Air Traffic Control? Whole new system? Grok controlled ATC?

lol I don’t want my plane to crash into another plane…

It’s hardly a herculean task to replace most atc functions with software, detecting planes which are on collision course and instructing them how to avoid that being one of the easiest tasks.

Of course you’d still sometimes need a human in the loop, but you could get by with much less staff

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#362
post #296

So the deadlock is over ACA premium tax credits. A subsidy towards premiums, inversely proportional to income. Republicans have to budge on this right? Health insurance is already dire in this country, you cant fuck it up even more. The working class is the biggest part of the citizenry, and we are in an affordability crisis

Project 2025 (the instruction manual that the president and his staff are hewing to) wants to shred everything in ACA and privatize everything. They offer nothing other than reducing taxes on the wealthy. The poors don't matter because they they are poor and exist only to be exploited for service work.

This is a strange assertion given that the concession is reallocating funds to HSAs?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#363

I'm a heavy gamer. I like lots of strategy games. Sometimes I look at our country like a strategy game: where we are investing resources, infrastructure planning and investment, active problems or threats and how they are being prioritized and handled, managing citizen happiness, etc. The last 10-20 years feel like a massive lost opportunity to invest in some of these improvements and forward-thinking planning. In th…

It's hard not to zoom out and look at the world as a game at times. If you do that, and go back way more than 10 years, it feels like every country is playing terribly. Countries used to routinely go on domination quests for land and resources. They used to go find exotic lands and claim them as their own. They used to harvest resources and enslave the losers. Now, not so much. If you watched it zoomed out as a game,…

To me it doesn't look like the powerful have given up power, it seems as concentrated as ever. It is more that the concept of a nation isn't that useful to them under globalization at least not in the same way.

Some of this is due to changes in technology. For example as farming improved with the green revolution shear land area counted for less, and shipping and refrigeration allow longer distance imports.

So rather than land area control you see more localized strategic resource control. Things like mines, oil fields, shipping lanes etc.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#364
post #312
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private planes dont need air traffic controllers?

it depends on the airport and airspace. it's not required everywhere.

Sure but that probably wouldn't affect rich people. Rich people would be flying to LA, NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Dallas, etc. Big metropolitan areas.

I think those areas would probably need air traffic controllers.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#365

I'm a heavy gamer. I like lots of strategy games. Sometimes I look at our country like a strategy game: where we are investing resources, infrastructure planning and investment, active problems or threats and how they are being prioritized and handled, managing citizen happiness, etc. The last 10-20 years feel like a massive lost opportunity to invest in some of these improvements and forward-thinking planning. In th…

> It feels like we are in a weaker position then ever: militaristically, > economically, scientifically, and so on. Meanwhile the threats of China > and Russia and what could happen in the next few years are quite concerning.

On the other hand, it's not only USA really.

Russia with their czarist structure of power and control hasn't really had an economy that's more sustainable than USSR ever pretended to have, and their government keeps digging the country further in the grave as we speak. Russia can be a nuisance to its neighbours by their size alone but as their failing offensive in Ukraine shows they don't really give much to worry about in their peer countries of similar size and position.

Europe is running around like a group of headless chicken pecking eachother with minimal ability to make decisions cohesively and in unison, and many larger European countries are trampling knee deep in the mud when you compare to their heydays.

China is indebted, lacking energy, yet wants to expand their projection of military power but having enough to do with their current neighbours and desperately needing to maintain trade relations around the world means that, at best, the ruling party can only think about it. Unlike some other peer nation states I think they just might ultimately be wise enough to understand their position themselves, too, despite the desire to posture hard.

Further, I can name many countries that are, in relative terms, doing similarly stupid things now that they didn't do before and few that have actually managed to preserve some common sense but they're either small enough to not matter a squat on the global stage or they aren't interested in global power in the first place.

Not that USA isn't actively destroying the very relations that did help them extend their power across the globe cheaply through allies, working to weaken the dollar, and in internal affairs shooting themselves in the foot at a rate that could make even Russia jealous, but USA is still pretty good in comparison to their competition. There's no serious contender for USA at the moment and won't be any time soon even if USA keeps hitting even lower and lower bars of statehood.

I'm more pessimistic than optimistic about the future but the reason is that it seems the world as a whole has enshittified themselves down to a level that would have seemed even theoretically impossible by the key players only a few decades ago.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#366

Would increasing the age limit of 31 for new air traffic controllers fix anything?

I can't imagine you're getting a huge inflow of people in their 30s or above itching to spend years training for a job where you won't get paid for months at a time at the whims of fighting politicians.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#367
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it depends on the airport and airspace. it's not required everywhere.

No one rich enough flying what the average person would consider a "private jet" or private plane would be flying VFR from uncontrolled airport to uncontrolled airport. The "ultra rich" are not puttering around in single-engine Cessnas

not going to argue with that, there were single engine comments on the thread though.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#368
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it depends on the airport and airspace. it's not required everywhere.

Sure but that probably wouldn't affect rich people. Rich people would be flying to LA, NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Dallas, etc. Big metropolitan areas. I think those areas would probably need air traffic controllers.

yeah all the major airports are class B and they need atc at jet cruise altitudes.

there are uncontrolled airports with runways large enough for jets.. like Alpine Wyoming.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#369
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because the democrats have no power except to make things worse, that’s what they should do? They have publicly said that the only thing they are negotiating for is one more year of health care subsidies. That’s a noble goal, but the country voted, and they don’t want affordable healthcare. If the Democrats ever have power again, then they can make policy again as well.

> ...the country voted, and they don’t want affordable healthcare. Can we say those voting for Trump in 2024 were saying they don't want affordable healthcare? There were many issues on the table and it wasn't a landslide.

Repealing Obamacare has been a _very explicit_ policy position of the Republican party for over a decade. They spent the entire last election telling anyone who would listen exactly what they would do, and now they are doing it. Yes, elections matter, and they have consequences. The midterm elections are in one year. That's the next chance the electorate has to change their mind.

The thing is, the last time the Republicans shut down the government for whatever pet project it was they wanted, I was furious. They lost the last election, yet they were trying to jam their agenda into law anyway through, essentially, blackmail. I'm not so hypocritical that I would be okay with it now because it's "my side". My side is functioning democracy at this point, and that's what the Democrats are risking with this shutdown.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#370
post #321

A quick search shows that there are over 20,000 ATCs employed in the United States. (I'm not confident in the sources I found - anyone know where to get reliable stats for things like this?) Is the number of retiring ATCs higher than normal? I assume it is, but the article doesn't mention the baseline. It's hard for me to understand the scale of the issue from this article alone.

If we take the lower number of 15, than that is nearly 5.5k a year. Even if we round it down, that'd be 25% a year if your number is right and this situation continued. Of course it can't continue very long, because there won't be that many old enough to have the choice, presumably. But it's a crazy rate.

This comment was moved from a different post that said “up to 15 or 20” are retiring daily. Thus the lower number is actually zero, and my guess is they are actually describing a peak day of 15 or 20 people retiring (which is still a lot!)
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