How to defeat this:
Step 1: Create an AI image and display it.
Step 2: Use this camera to take a picture of it.
Now you have "attested" proof of "verifiably real" image.
Roc Camera
361–370 of 491 posts
Re: Roc Camera
#362I used to be really (really really) into photography. I respect anyone working hard on a physical product, but this misses the mark on every front I can think of. The real issue that photographers grapple with, emotionally and financially, is that pictures have become so thoroughly commodified that nobody assigns them cultural value anymore. They are the thumbnail you see before the short video clip starts playing. N…
This is not about photographers. Imagine the president wants to deliver a video message. Was it authentic or AI generated? If it was filmed with this camera, the population can verify.
Yes. I am surprised by off the rails this conversation went. It's not about art. It's about verifiable evidence in these crazy times.
Re: Roc Camera
#363This page cannot be scrolled in Safari or Firefox.
Devs -- stop hijacking native scrolling functionality. Why? You had one shot to sell me on this product. I can't see the page, so I can't consider it for purchase. That's a lost sale.
Re: Roc Camera
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think almost everyone here is missing the point of this camera. In the post truth AI future, this is the camera you want when you photograph the billionaire or President or your spouse doing something awful. Any other photo proof won’t work because it can always be called fake. And yes I’m being serious. You are missing the point if you say the quality isn’t good enough or it’s too slow or bulky. The idea is the pr…
You can just AI generate a photo and snap a picture of that. There's no such thing as provable authenticity .
That's likely to be easily detected.
Re: Roc Camera
#365How to defeat this: Step 1: Create an AI image and display it. Step 2: Use this camera to take a picture of it. Now you have "attested" proof of "verifiably real" image.
Indeed it can't authenticate photons.
Security isn't about making things perfectly safe, but to make it harder for the bad guys.
Re: Roc Camera
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
The concept of «public» has changed. About 15-20 years ago I attended a lot of car events (races, shows) where I took lots of photos. Mostly of moving cars, but also a lot of closeups of race car drivers using a long lens. For about a year more than half the photos published in a very niche car publication were by me. The magazine had a few thousand subscribers. And to this day I still see some drivers use my shots o…
This gave me an idea - what if we made a stable diffusion based AI that would replace unimportant faces (and possibly other identifying details) with different ones - I have seen that AI can do this and make the change unnoticeable. That way people would be safe from having their personal likeness and whereabouts accidentally plastered over the internet (except when they want their photo to be taken), and the end res…
Ah yes, because more AI will solve this problem.
No, what we need is for people to feel safe in public again, for them to not feel like they're constantly one questionable picture away from their lives being ruined. Kill social media, kill gigantic public face tracking dragnets, kill privacy-invading capitalism.
Re: Roc Camera
#367How to defeat this: Step 1: Create an AI image and display it. Step 2: Use this camera to take a picture of it. Now you have "attested" proof of "verifiably real" image.
Isn't the broader idea here valid? Will news agencies have cryptographic attestation in their cameras?
Re: Roc Camera
#368I used to be really (really really) into photography. I respect anyone working hard on a physical product, but this misses the mark on every front I can think of. The real issue that photographers grapple with, emotionally and financially, is that pictures have become so thoroughly commodified that nobody assigns them cultural value anymore. They are the thumbnail you see before the short video clip starts playing. N…
I also used to be really (really really) into photography. Personally, I’ve stopped taking pictures because of the stigma around a camera. Everyone, me more than most, doesn’t want their picture taken, or to be in the background of other photos. When someone can take thousands of pictures an hour, and upload them all to some social media site to be permanently stored… idk it’s shifted from a way to capture a moment t…
The quantities are what changed. Taking a photo used to be relatively difficult and rare, so it was mainly reserved for relatively meaningful subjects. Which meant that having your picture taken was also relatively rare, and was something of a validation that you were interesting enough to merit being photographed. For that photograph to be published, even more so. Now cameras are plentiful and cheap, "publishing" opportunities are plentiful and cheap, and being photographed is commonplace and not appreciated as much. You can read all the meanings into my choice of the word cheap, by the way - as a price (increased supply made the price go down) or as a value (there's an abundance, so it becomes meaningless), or even as an implication about quality (low stakes means not as much attention or care for composing a shot).
Re: Roc Camera
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think almost everyone here is missing the point of this camera. In the post truth AI future, this is the camera you want when you photograph the billionaire or President or your spouse doing something awful. Any other photo proof won’t work because it can always be called fake. And yes I’m being serious. You are missing the point if you say the quality isn’t good enough or it’s too slow or bulky. The idea is the pr…
You can just AI generate a photo and snap a picture of that. There's no such thing as provable authenticity .
I imagine that, if attested cameras like this come into any sort of regular use, you'll see additional layers of metadata mixed into the signature—a depth map, GPS, accelerometers, operator biometrics etc, none of which are necessarily infallible, but which certainly create considerable barriers to faking things.
Re: Roc Camera
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I am just naive, but I don't see why taking a photo of a screen, projection, or print out would be hard. Wouldn't it just need even lighting and tripod? Adding something like a LIDAR and somehow baking that data into the meta data could be fun
Then people will connect their fake image and LIDAR feed to where the CMOS is connected. Like always with half-baked digital attestation chains, laypersons will argue "Oh, but who's gonna do that?" and the reality is that even private modders and hackers are perfectly willing and capable of doing this and will jump on it right away, and if it's just for the fun to distribute a certified picture of an alien giving eve…
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