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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

361–370 of 373 posts

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you are proposing is essentially security through obscurity It's a great way to combat bureacracies. It only doesn't work against smart people, such as computer hackers.

This kind of security benefits the general population against mass-scale crackdowns (like dodging conscription in Russia) of course, but it can still be weaponized against individuals (like journalists, dissidents, political opposition). Which are the main people who needs this kind of data-protection.

They're the main people who need it because mass-scale crackdowns don't work. They're the only reachable targets.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#363
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have included the quote I was responding to: "some of them did chuck some paint on some planes."

Is that inaccurate? Unless the goal was to strike terror into the hearts of some insurance companies, in what way does the scale of the damages affect whether this organisation should be proscribed? Should we be proscribing Bernie Madoff next?

"chuck some paint" is a deliberate misrepresentation.

It misleadingly describes the scale, coordination, and intent. It uses a minor detail to trivialize an act explicitly intended to reduce military capacity.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#364
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that inaccurate? Unless the goal was to strike terror into the hearts of some insurance companies, in what way does the scale of the damages affect whether this organisation should be proscribed? Should we be proscribing Bernie Madoff next?

"chuck some paint" is a deliberate misrepresentation. It misleadingly describes the scale, coordination, and intent. It uses a minor detail to trivialize an act explicitly intended to reduce military capacity.

Is there any scale of paint chucking that can realistically represent a terrorist threat? Is there any scale of paint chucking that should lead to proscription? Because that's the key point here. It's not "can they be prosecuted for paint chucking?" (yes, obviously), or "can their paint checking escapades have serious costs or ramifications?" (sure, lock them up!) it's a question of whether their actions constituted such a grave threat to the safety of the United Kingdom that the only way of dealing with that was to make it illegal to even support their group.

If we as a country are so at risk from paint chucking that we're resorting to proscription as our tool of defence, then we have some serious issues.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#365
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have also had a problem before with a transaction being inaccurately flagged as fraudulent. This could either be because an anti-fraud algorithm isn’t perfect 100% of the time, or it could be the result of a vast government conspiracy to limit my travel. I have my doubts that China, which has many of the densest cities in the world, would get much mileage (pun intended) out of restricting travel to try to quell pro…

> I have also had a problem before with a transaction being inaccurately flagged as fraudulent. This could either be because an anti-fraud algorithm isn’t perfect 100% of the time, or it could be the result of a vast government conspiracy to limit my travel. I never said it was part of a government conspiracy. What I am saying is that your ability to transact freely is infringed by opaque mechanisms. If that is added…

Sorry, I didn't interpret your comment correctly.

I admit you have a fair point here. I'm a political independent but started out left-wing. It's hard for me to accept the reality that a government that starts out well-meaning definitely can tilt toward totalitarianism, and that the lack of good chokepoints on the citizens (such as this hypothetical ability to control payments) may well be a key prevention mechanism. I think the left wing in the US likes to frame suspicion of those kinds of things as silly preparations for a future that won't happen, and the right frames roadblocks to government power as being in place to make that bad future harder to bring about.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#366
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have also had a problem before with a transaction being inaccurately flagged as fraudulent. This could either be because an anti-fraud algorithm isn’t perfect 100% of the time, or it could be the result of a vast government conspiracy to limit my travel. I never said it was part of a government conspiracy. What I am saying is that your ability to transact freely is infringed by opaque mechanisms. If that is added…

Sorry, I didn't interpret your comment correctly. I admit you have a fair point here. I'm a political independent but started out left-wing. It's hard for me to accept the reality that a government that starts out well-meaning definitely can tilt toward totalitarianism, and that the lack of good chokepoints on the citizens (such as this hypothetical ability to control payments) may well be a key prevention mechanism.…

> It's hard for me to accept the reality that a government that starts out well-meaning definitely can tilt toward totalitarianism, and that the lack of good chokepoints on the citizens (such as this hypothetical ability to control payments) may well be a key prevention mechanism

You are making the assumption that any politician or government is "well meaning" or started out as such. I am in the UK and I look at the politicians and the state apparatus with absolute contempt.

I suggest you listen to some of Dominic Cummings interviews about his experience with Whitehall (UK) during COVID. There was one situation that he described which really stood out to me. There was particular situation early in the pandemic where the NHS was going to run out of a key medical supplies in about 2 weeks and as a result thousands could die. These supplies were shipped from China and it took about 3/4 weeks (I forget the exact time frame).

For some reason it was written into law that they had to be shipped. He had the Prime Minister sign a legal waiver so they could be air-lifted, explained this to key officials in Whitehall. Everyone agreed what needed to be done and then nothing happened for 3 days. These people had to be threatened with losing their jobs and their pensions otherwise they wouldn't do their job, they fully understood the consequences of not doing the job (thousands of people might die) and still did nothing. It is an apathy of evil.

This behaviour is commonplace in ossified organisations unfortunately and I wasn't surprised one iota when I heard this.

As for mechanisms that reduce state power as prevent totalitarianism. No one thing will prevent it. It would be a combination of things.

It is similar to how running Linux (or any alternative OS) won't by itself stop the strangle hold of large tech players over most of the tech/online space. It will at least help you reduce your dependence on these large companies. Combine that with self hosting and/or using alternatives at least you can be somewhat free from the worst of it.

> I think the left wing in the US likes to frame suspicion of those kinds of things as silly preparations for a future that won't happen, and the right frames roadblocks to government power as being in place to make that bad future harder to bring about.

Silly partisan politics is going to have both sides pretending that the other side doesn't have any merit in their positions. I would just ignore the noise and actually read the facts about things and draw your own conclusions.

I believe that most of the politics you see is really theatre. It keeps people squabbling over things that are ultimately unimportant.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#367
post #298

Oh hell yes two million signatures lets gooooo. Finally some inspiring movement on this front.

It’s a lot of signatures but the petition against the Online Safety Act got 500k and the response was basically just “lolno.” What’s the point of democracy if the people say no and the government does it anyway?

Ugh... True.

Thats what I get for having a moment of hope.

Lesson learned lol.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> “Grossly offensive” is absolutely not the same thing as “any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive”. There is no statutory definition of “grossly”, so in effect it is the same. There is prior art for it being interpreted incredibly widely. Not to mention the other incredibly vague adjectives in the law. > Correct https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html “Don’t be snarky”.

Sorry, that was a low shot, and not meant truthfully, but I just couldn’t resist making an offensive comment when the topic was “you can be arrested for offending someone”.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#369

Prediction: > The Government has no plans to stop the introduction of Digital ID cards, and is working closely with companies to implement it as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903

Four days later:

> We will introduce a digital ID within this Parliament to help tackle illegal migration, make accessing government services easier, and enable wider efficiencies. We will consult on details soon.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45461391

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#370
post #307
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something about digital IDs that make them easier to issue than passports? I understand what you are saying that they could have benefits but is that an inherent problem with passports or just bureaucracy?

Getting a passport is extremely expensive for the underclass, think of it as being worth half a month of your wages to get an idea. That’s before you include the mandatory security screening which will cause you to travel half of the UK (on our expensive travel infrastructure!) If I didn’t have a job lined up I wouldn’t have gotten on, my mum didn’t have one her whole life until after I had gotten mine. It’s an arduo…

Ok but why would a digital ID be cheaper or easier?
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