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Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#361

Post by nulbyte »

bkettle wrote: post #273
TeMPOraL wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses want to protect the continuity of their business operations , and to that end they buy such protection as a service, from a business that managed to MitM half the Internet in order to provide such service. Point being, it's a commercial subverting the Internet from inside, reshaping it to better serve the interests of commerce. It is indeed protection, but it's accomplished by reducing variance . 99% of le…

I actually think that Cloudflare has made publishing on the internet _more_ accessible for many individuals. I’ve helped a few people get personal websites running on Cloudflare pages and run my own there—it’s free and extremely easy. They could obviously pull the plug at any point, but with static sites it’s easy to avoid lock-in. If it weren’t for Cloudflare and other services that give free, easy hosting, I suspec…

There have been places that host personal and hobby websites for free for at least the last 30 years. Some older ones have left, and newer ones keep coming along. Cloudflare didn't make this any more accessible.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#362

Post by matheusmoreira »

dpifke wrote: post #351
matheusmoreira wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obtain your own address space from a RIR How does one do that? And what are the costs involved?

From your HN profile, I see you're in Brazil, which is part of the region IANA has delegated to LACNIC. Per [0], LACNIC has further delegated numbering authority in Brazil to Registro.br. Following the links on that page (or performing a simple Google search) leads one to: https://registro.br/tecnologia/numeracao/como-solicitar/ [0]: https://www.lacnic.net/1016/2/lacnic/ip-request

Looks like I need to become a literal ISP then.

Before I even start this bureaucratic process, I need to create an actual organization. Then I need to be assigned an ASN. Only then I'll be allowed to beg them for IPs. Once all that's taken care of, I need to tell them things like what the IPs will be used for and what my infrastructure is. If they like my answer, then they'll approve my request and finally tell me what the prices are.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#363

Post by aetherspawn »

Now that it’s possible, for anyone looking to start a new FOSS project… I would like if someone could please make a serverless spam catcher service that runs on workers so we can host it in front of self hosted email.

Something like:

- Blacklists/whitelists and wildcards

- Phishing detection

- Spam digest/rollup spam into single email every day with buttons to release

- Virus scanning of attachments

- Replace inbound links with hosted link previews/malware scans

Strategically looking to get off the MS email stack, but this is a big part of it.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#364

Post by nulbyte »

0x457 wrote: post #296
mrweasel wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark, there is no close Amazon warehouse, so shipping always suck. Not only is shipping times frequently a week or more, it's also overpriced and items are frequently less expensive from local online stores. Amazons only advantage is it's massive selection, if you can find what you're looking for.

In the US, it's the opposite. If you order directly from the brand, you get multi-day or more often multi-week delivery times. Unless they are using amazon logistic and which case it's the same as buying off amazon - 0/1/2-day delivery times.

I remember the days when things didn't arrive immediately. I miss them. We were more patient back then.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#365

Post by ants_everywhere »

IgorPartola wrote: post #360
ants_everywhere wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's cloudflare's fault. They monetized and scaled a service that blocks humans from interacting with websites. They're also essentially a deanonymization reverse proxy that can track everyone's browsing history and decide whether you get to see websites based on social credit.

And it is in their financial interest to block. They would rather not spend their bandwidth.

That I'm not so sure about. If they get too block-happy they'll lose customers.

But I don't think they care if they block firefox users, or people who delete cookies, or VPN users, or Tor users, or people who resist fingerprinting, or people who block ads, etc.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#366

Post by encrypted_bird »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #320
mosura wrote: post #4

Eventually all Internet protocols will be MITMed by cloudflare. Your single point of interception!

I’ve never understood the evil MITM endgame here. Cloudflare’s ToS and contracts prevent them from doing nastiness with your data without breach, and approximately all their revenue comes from large enterprises that will leave in droves (and some will actually sue them) if they started exploiting it. The thing where they let DDoSers use them to protect their public sites from rival DDoSers is sketchy as hell, but doe…

> Cloudflare's ToS and contracts prevent them from doing nastiness with your data without breach ...

Contracts can be and regularly are changed. Ebay, PayPal, Etsy, Google, Microsoft, ad nauseum all have done this many times.

Contract-based protections mean very little if those clauses are non-perpetual and revokable.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#367

Post by sgustard »

maz1b wrote: post #26

It's unfortunate that email hosting and email infrastructure can really be done only well by major players. The days of people running and maintaining their own are pretty much long gone. Fwiw, not a knock against CF. I like their products, mostly simple, fair pricing, etc. Just a bit unfortunate commentary on the state of email infra on the internet.

Cloudflare's customers are companies that have to send out, say, reset password emails and verify account emails and other crumbs of the modern web. You want me to build my own infrastructure for that? Personally I can't wait for them to expand to SMS and crush Twilio.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#368

Post by dwedge »

op00to wrote: post #305
layer8 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What GP is effectively saying is that you don’t value independence enough to invest the necessary money and (for personal use) time into self-hosting. And there is a spectrum to this. For example, using a small, independent email or hosting provider may cost a little more time, but makes you more independent from big tech, and maybe more importantly, contributes to reducing the power of big tech. We are all paying fo…

> makes you more independent from big tech Citation requested. Big tech considers your IP address dishonorable, and blackholes your emails. How independent are you now when you can't email any providers that use blacklists? > contributes to reducing the power of big tech Again, citation requested. Big tech will just blackhole your emails and you'll only find out when your users complain.

Everyone says this about self hosting email but I've had fewer problems self hosting email than any other service - though I don't use residential IPs I use dedicated servers or VPS. I've also seen plenty of comments from others who selfhost email whose experience matches mine.

I also see a lot of comments from those who have admittedly never tried, telling me that I'll be blacklisted and not even know.

I don't know if this is some kind of confirmation bias, or if there's just a very vocal bubble of people without experience talking about how difficult it is.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#369

Post by dwedge »

bakies wrote: post #125
gethly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was about to comment on this but you got right to the point. All of this is because people are lazy to build, let alone maintain, their own damn programs and servers.

running email servers is a huge and terrible time sink

Have you tried it?

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#370

Post by stingraycharles »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #213
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

I don't know what kind of internet you used but mine didn't randomly decide to block my access to a website because some quasi monopolist decided I wasn't allowed to use a certain website for intransparent reasons.

That’s the website owner deciding to do that, Cloudflare just gives them the tools to do so.
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