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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#361

Post by unnamed76ri »

deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #321
Rover222 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a pointless statement when you make it that broadly. Are you talking about life in North Korea or in China? And do you think American media really distorts the "other" side more than Chinese or Russian media distorts what life in the west is like?

> And do you think American media really distorts the "other" side more than Chinese or Russian media distorts what life in the west is like? having lived for a long time in both china and america: yes. chinese people are given a much more accurate view of life in america than americans are given an accurate view of life in china thats why there was that meme going around earlier this year when tik tok people joined…

A quarter of their population doesn’t even have Internet access.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#362

Post by Kbelicius »

skeezyboy wrote: post #354
INTPenis wrote: post #317

We sure do, it seems like a natural progression of a free market. The corporations want to know our worth before they deal with us. I'm speaking from a Swedish perspective but for a long time already we had these "credit checks", where a company can quickly order a check on a customer to see if they're eligible for paying via invoice, or installments. And the consumer gets a letter in the mail notifying them of each…

the entire first world has credit checks. china is doing behaviour checks

> the entire first world has credit checks

No it doesn't.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#363

Post by rationably »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

> some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble

That's... Sufficiently concerning, don't you think?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#364

Post by GJim »

mr_toad wrote: post #339
account42 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might, if not now then possibly in the future. See e.g. people in the UK getting arrested for tweets.

If you’re telling people to punch other people in the balls maybe you should be arrested.

Your comment has deliberately omitted the context needed for honest discourse. Thus, one can only conclude you are trolling.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#365

Post by jlokier »

mr_toad wrote: post #347
FrancisMoodie wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? They don't check your credit score where I live (west-eu). They check your pay slip to see how much you make monthly and if it your rent is less than half your paycheck they can decide to let you rent. After that is a two or three month downpayment that is locked in a seperate bank account specifically for this use and is released at the end of the lease. If there is no damage to the rental unit you get back yo…

In the UK they’ll do background checks, and check your salary. They’d ask for six months rent in advance if it wasn’t illegal. And even though it is illegal.

In my experience, in the UK, the rental agency required 12 months rent in advance (plus another 2 months rent as deposit) when I was self-employed. They would have accepted monthly rent if I had 5x the annual rent in cash savings, but I didn't.

And then every year after that they required another 12 months rent up front, when it came to the annual tenancy renewal. Track record of paying the rent wasn't good enough to prove that I could keep paying the rent.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#366

Post by benreesman »

XorNot wrote: post #357
benreesman wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't an "authoritarian bit", it's not binary. When I was young the idea that your own computer would spy on you, or the one in your phone, or in your car? That was a William Gibson novel, wiretaps happened to mob bosses, you didn't worry about it happening to you as part of a dragnet. Security camera? You mean in a bank right? Microsoft bundling IE was so egregious that the department of justice took time off…

Okay but no scandal can damage a politician because you the American people are currently choosing to let that be the case. Same with the billionaires. The entire problem gets painted as "other" but it's you: you're actually promulgating it by your very choice of language here!

I'm not saying that the decline of Enlightenment values and the rise of crony-nepo-central-committee surveilance nightmare is "other", I'm saying it is indifferent to the stated political system, it's about the de facto political system no matter what you call it.

What I care about is outcomes, what actually happens, what norms and institutional posture actually obtains in reality.

And on that basis, "western liberal" society has very little business holding its nose up about "authoritarianism" as a blanket term for rival nations in 2025. No one here is talking about Sudan or Turministan, they're talking about other advanced nations with participatory politics, robust social welfare programs, limited influence for oligarchs, and highly competent governance.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#367

Post by slightwinder »

specproc wrote: post #335
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> I'm not saying everywhere is identical, there's a spectrum.

That's the point. You have the same type of problems everywhere, but not the same quantity and quality. But people seem to not care or understand those differences, and weaponize the concepts, instead of looking at the outcome.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#368

Post by holoduke »

mattnewton wrote: post #178
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

Liberal in words. If you don't follow the rules you are expelled anyway. There is a reason why 99% of all politicians and CEOs are coming from the same universities and bubbles.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#369

Post by yieldcrv »

graemep wrote: post #101
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Not entirely true. People living authoritarian worry about what they say, they self-censor out of fear, they defer to those in power (even at a local level), they accept a hierarchy of power rather than rights. I do not entirely disagree without, but lack of freedom does intrude into day to day life to some extent.

We’ve self censored regarding the state narrative on Israel/Palestine our entire lives in the west

Just because the censorship is outsourced to the private sector, mostly, doesn’t make the day to day any different when you rely on support of the private sector, alongside discretionary support from the state

Visa holders are experiencing detainment for this specific thing, this cycle. And in other western democracies anyone can be fined and imprisoned for it as well

Wishful thinking that there is imperviousness to disagreeing with the state narrative in the west

The reality is that it’s not always on the mind 100% of the time and you learn to appreciate the day to day life under Eastern and Western authoritarian systems

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#370

Post by matthewdgreen »

frontfor wrote: post #342
mensetmanusman wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a naive view. Life under the Soviet Union was horrible. Talk to nearly everyone who lived in fear that their neighbors would rat on them. That affects everyone.

The horrible life in Soviet Union was due to horrible governmental policies, which are not unique to authoritarian governments. Liberal governments have their fair share of bad policies.

I wonder why people voted for those bad Soviet policies.
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