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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#361

Post by reddalo »

000ooo000 wrote: post #340
rblatz wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix is right in its prime right now, K-Pop Demon Hunters is a smash hit and probably the biggest cultural thing going on right now, it has like 4 songs from it in the top 10. Wednesday is coming back this weekfor the end of season 2. Stranger Things is wrapping up in November,

Odd to hear for me. Netflix Australia has been in steep decline for years now. The only shows I recognise by title or actors in the poster are 15+ years old, or are adorned with 'Leaving Soon'. Everything of value has been poached by a competitor.

It's the same situation in Italy. Netflix doesn't have any interesting content anymore, only their own originals.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#362

Post by beeflet »

nuker wrote: post #281
quaintdev wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not give people the freedom to choose what they want

It will be exploited. Key word above - not tech savvy. The only reason we have convenient banking, gov and streaming apps today is because of guaranteed and enforced mobile security by big boys Apple and Google. (Google being Ad company is another matter, not relevant here).

Really? They couldn't just use a website?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#363

Post by edg5000 »

safety1st wrote: post #357
zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

I'm going to get wild-eyed now but you can blame Google for that as they're the ones who just announced they'll retroactively ban me from installing software on the computer I bought and own. I don't think you can really solve this problem as long as there's an operating system monopoly, or even duopoly/triopoly. The lure of total control is just too great. Every operating system vendor, hell every intellectual prope…

Well said!

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#364

Post by bubblebeard »

The author makes a good point but for the wrong reason I think. The fact that companies lock down their software, and hardware (looking at you Apple), is their choice just like it is yours to give them the finger.

However, at least in Sweden, a smart phone is practically mandatory since it has become a means of identification used by banks, police, our IRS counterpart etc. Even our physical mail is slowly being digitalised, and these services practically require you to own a smart phone. You can get by without one, but it’s a real struggle.

Therefore there should be laws requiring more transparency of these devices, in my opinion.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#365

Post by reddalo »

bubblebeard wrote: post #364

The author makes a good point but for the wrong reason I think. The fact that companies lock down their software, and hardware (looking at you Apple), is their choice just like it is yours to give them the finger. However, at least in Sweden, a smart phone is practically mandatory since it has become a means of identification used by banks, police, our IRS counterpart etc. Even our physical mail is slowly being digit…

Not only transparency, but freedom.

Freedom to use something you bought the way you want, without having a private foreign company decide for you.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#366

Post by jacquesm »

fluoridation wrote: post #312
cyphar wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence. I would hope you'd agree those are not powers that we should grant to large corporations... I think it's shocking how many people Google can affect through its search algorithms (more than any nation on Earth) and yet there is no democratic system to hold them…

>Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence. A nation that did that would be able to do that exactly once before everyone decides to never do business with it ever again, which they can afford to do because it's such a small market. Exercising arbitrary power is not the trump card you think it is. Hell,…

Singapore.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#367

Post by edg5000 »

liendolucas wrote: post #339

One of the biggest problems (if not the biggest) is that this desire is still a niche desire. If non-techie people would somehow be convinced that indeed hardware/software freedom is a basic right no matter the device we would be in a different position to pressure governments. How can people be convinced about it is the hardest part. How do you convince people that have no idea about how technology and corporation i…

I do think there is growing discontent with MS and Google, and you see Linux sentiment changing and the userbase growing. But it's still a small fraction of the populus even though it's grown a lot in the last decade probably

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#368

Post by josephg »

realusername wrote: post #354
charcircuit wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the parent said Ubuntu has horrible security. It would be better to just not buy a phone line for the iphone if you don't want phone calls or texts.

It hasn't, security isn't just technical features but a social contract. Even on an iPhone without a sim card, they can download one of the scam casino games from the appstore and give away a lot of money, on Ubuntu they can't do that. There's more to security than just bytes. The threats to your average user isn't a bootloader exploit built by some Israeli firm but privacy breaches, social engineering and scams.

Sure; but technical features can certainly make security better.

Like, iOS makes most unsafe actions incredibly clear. Apple pay always requires the user to double tap the power button. The OS makes it impossible for an application to charge you money through apple pay without an explicit user action.

Phone apps also can't take control of my entire device, or steal my cookies or cryptolocker my hard drive. Any program you download and run from the internet on a desktop computer can do all of this stuff and more. We shouldn't allow that stuff by default on desktop computers either.

Phones have the right idea. I just don't want Apple and Google to be the only ones who can modify the system at the OS level.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#369

Post by tern »

jacquesm wrote: post #104
tern wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, it's an authoritarian attitude, talking about forcing companies to support arbitrary software stacks

That's not what they wrote at all.

> It should be possible to run Android on an iPhone and manufacturers should be required by law to provide enough technical support and documentation to make the development of new operating systems possible

I was writing in reference to this quote ^

It would have been more accurate for me to say "support the development of arbitrary software stacks," but where do you draw the line between "supporting the development of" and "supporting"?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#370

Post by Liftyee »

tzury wrote: post #84

We need both options to coexist: 1. Open, hackable hardware for those who want full control and for driving innovation 2. Locked-down, managed devices for vulnerable users who benefit from protection This concept of "I should run any code on hardware I own" is completely wrong as a universal principle. Yes, we absolutely should be able to run any code we want on open hardware we own - that option must exist. But we s…

Regardless of whether we expect manufacturers to let us run any code on the device, we should not restrict people from attempting to bypass the manufacturers limitations. That gives the manufacturer freedom to try and lock the device down but also the owner freedom to break those locks. Otherwise it worsens situations like the FutureHome scandal.
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