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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#361

Post by spl757 »

millzlane wrote: post #351
spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself. I have over 5k rounds through it. The only time my gun has went off was when I pulled the trigger. Has your gun ever went off without pulling the trigger? Most of the videos I see on Y…

No, mine has never discharged without intention. I have had it for years and have put thousands of rounds through it. I keep it clean and maintained properly, and the only issue I've ever had with it is some jamming when using crappy FMJ range ammo.

All that being said, I'm not trying to say there is definitely an issue with the P320, but there is enough out there to give me some doubt. Perhaps there will be a fix at some point, but until then it's just not worth it to me.

This also isn't happening with other guns. If you google any other gun brand and the words unintentional discharge, you will still only get results for the P320.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#362

Post by MagicMoonlight »

solatic wrote: post #291
deelowe wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many modern guns for personal protection do not have manually actuated safeties and instead rely on other mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. For example, glocks have a "trigger safety." Without getting into minutia, these sort of features do a fine job of ensuring the gun does not fire unless the trigger is intentionally actuated. The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters…

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

Ex-military in what?

A tank wouldn’t ride around empty. You wouldn’t search a house with an empty rifle. You wouldn’t go on patrol with an empty rifle.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#363

Post by nabla9 »

lazide wrote: post #360
nabla9 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read what you wrote. You said that the evaluation duplicate something. Only thing they duplicate was the possibility of key firing. You must be referring to that. They were not able to duplicate physical malfunction.

They absolutely were able to duplicate elements of physical malfunction.

Yes. "elements" of physical malfunction, not the malfunction.

That means they were able to individual safety mechanism fail, but not all of them. The intact gun would not fire all by itself if it was hammered in the test.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#364

Post by lenerdenator »

giardini wrote: post #256
lenerdenator wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want them to make one with a damn thumb safety and if this competition won't make them do it, nothing will." - some US Army ordinance guy about Glock, probably.

COLT 1911 45 ACP condition 1.

Charged and locked, hard to screw that up.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#365

Post by lazide »

nabla9 wrote: post #363
lazide wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely were able to duplicate elements of physical malfunction.

Yes. "elements" of physical malfunction, not the malfunction. That means they were able to individual safety mechanism fail, but not all of them. The intact gun would not fire all by itself if it was hammered in the test.

And yet, it did in reality.

And there were clear manufacturing defects found when looking at the gun.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#366

Post by 83 »

sneak wrote: post #301
303uru wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P365 is great if it fits in your hand. But agree, denial has me pretty put off.

The P365 has a design flaw where there is a pinch point on your palm when changing magazines. The first time my partner used it, she gave herself a blood blister on the palm of her hand. Additionally, the trigger is super mushy, with like 4 different sticky break points, where only the last one is actually for firing. I hated everything about it; we bought it only because it fit her hand. It was my first and last Sig…

>> I have no idea why people buy pistols that aren’t Glocks.

Eh, that glock grip never felt right to me. The moment I picked up a PPQ it felt like someone had designed a grip specifically for my hand.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#367

Post by thunderfork »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #362
solatic wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

Ex-military in what? A tank wouldn’t ride around empty. You wouldn’t search a house with an empty rifle. You wouldn’t go on patrol with an empty rifle.

EDC !== military engagement

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#368

Post by matt-attack »

ahoka wrote: post #299
solatic wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

[flagged]

Great so us petite women are back to having a natural disadvantage to would be attackers. My gun is an equalizer. Doesn’t guarantee me safety but when I’m on that empty subway car late at night and a large aggressor enters the car, I’m at least on equal footing.

Those who wish to disarm us women are doing so from a position of luxury. Where you’re never felt what it’s like to be completely at the mercy of those drastically bigger and stronger than you. Or perhaps you come from the luxurious position where rapes don’t occur by large unarmed men.

Either way you’re not a friend of women’s rights.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#369

Post by nabla9 »

lazide wrote: post #365
nabla9 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "elements" of physical malfunction, not the malfunction. That means they were able to individual safety mechanism fail, but not all of them. The intact gun would not fire all by itself if it was hammered in the test.

And yet, it did in reality. And there were clear manufacturing defects found when looking at the gun.

You started with "the FBI was able to duplicate the ‘spontaneous firing of a chambere"

And we end with perfect social media claim: "I believe it did happen in reality".

I rest my case.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#370

Post by matt-attack »

snapetom wrote: post #260
lokar wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing anything about guns I would assume you would engage the safety when putting the weapon in the holster. Is that not true?

This is a hard question to answer, but I'll try to boil it down to this specific firearm. Many handguns, like all Glocks and many Sigs, these days are "striker fired," meaning there's an internal hammer that strikes the hammer versus an external hammer. Internal hammers are more complicated than external hammers, and that includes, in the case of Glocks, two built-in safeties internally that would prevent misfires. T…

The absence of external manually activated safeties is really orthogonal to whether it’s striker fired or external hammer fired. There are countless guns that have external hammers with traditional double action or single action modes, but still lack an external safety. This is true of many many SIG and HK models.
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